HOPES, DINER ETIQUETTE, TRENDS AND INSPIRATION
AC: So, I want to get into some lighter questions. Is there anything specifically that you're excited or hopeful about moving forward?
BALDWIN: Summer. Outdoor dining just brings a different environment to everything and again, our whole mantra here is we control the things that we can. We have 60 feet of facade outside our building. We're looking forward to having more of an outdoor vibe. And I think we've made enough adjustments to accommodate the unexpected and build on what wasn't there [pre-pandemic] – a curbside to-go and bread program. I've also been able to have these relevant culinary pillars [such as former Mistral executive chef Joe Schreiter] working with me. That's been instrumental to weathering this.
MUENCH: I think I'm just happy that we're back. I'm happy this winter is not as dire as it was last year, and I think, just looking at the comparison, the key is to stay focused on what's going on right now and take care of the guests even though the numbers are down. I think these incremental steps will lead into summer and things that are much more positive. In focusing on the past, it could be worse, you know. So I think that's the mantra we're trying to keep in our restaurants.
BAKER: I think I can probably speak for a lot of people when I say we all just feel like we're in some sort of suspended state. You want to go forward but you can only go so far forward right now. I think we just try to take joy in the day-to-day – who's on the reservation list, what are we going to make today? It's the little things. If you just kind of focus on that right now, you can survive this.
JACOBS: I'm definitely with Zak on this. It's definitely the little things like the Saturdays. Nobody can call me, nobody's emailing me … and I just spend my day in the kitchen cooking food, and I think that's when I'm my happiest. Deal with what you can deal with and, you know, try and find moments of happiness here and there.
AC: Karen, you're gearing up for a new location for Bavette on Broadway, also in the Third Ward, which is exciting.
BAKER: Yeah, that's cool.
BELL: Exciting, yes. It's just a move, but it's also like a new restaurant in a lot of instances, so it's a lot [to juggle] right now. And we are understaffed, so we're just taking it day by day, but I will be very excited once we're moved and settled in – and I'm excited to get back in the kitchen and get creative. When you're dealing with the day-to-day grind, you forget that. [At the new space] I want to continue to do what people are coming to the restaurant for and not reinvent the wheel. But I would also like to do new and different things. We'll see.
AC: When I did the first chef roundtable back in 2017, I asked the chefs for their advice on how to be a better diner, and I feel like that's worth revisiting. What would you say now?
BELL: Being respectful and nice! No one's trying to do a bad job. I think people just don't understand, going back to the understaffing [issue], maybe we're down a server or we're down a cook. We're trying our best to do the best that we can. Of course we're the service industry so we're providing a service – you're paying for it. I understand that, but some of the things that people bring up are just so mind-blowing ridiculous. Just thinking about that next time you're about to blow up on someone, that this is another person. There's no need to be disrespectful or hurtful.
AC: Yeah, it can be challenging for some people. Dan, I think you have something to say about this.
JACOBS: I just think everybody should work in a restaurant and [at] a host stand for one night and really feel what it's like. … You know, it's not the end of the world, man – your table will still be there, your food will still be served to you hot. Just breathe it out.
APRAHAMIAN: Yeah, I'm with Dan on that. For a long time, I've thought that everybody should work in a restaurant at some point in their life just to have some amount of courtesy
as to the process. I haven't worked front of house extensively but I can empathize and sympathize and be with those people and understand what's going on. … [Also] I think the expectation of people being out right now – not everything's available; not everything is cost effective to run in restaurants, the way that you remember it being run two years ago or five years ago. Things are different, and people need to grow and adapt and realize that my menu is not the same today as it was. And that's not all my decision. There are some things that are dictated for us, some processes that have changed.
MUENCH: [It's been] the power of our managers to be more assertive toward our guests, that they won't tolerate any disrespect. And on the other front there with Justin is the supply chain. That certainly has changed our venues, and we've dealt with plenty of people saying, “Will it ever come back?” because it's not on the menu anymore. I can't say if it'll come back or not, but we're just gently explaining to them, “We don't have crab cakes on [the menu] because the crab is $18 a pound.” But we've adapted and shifted it to create different dishes that we hope are appealing.
APRAHAMIAN: People need to understand that if they want that crab cake that bad, they need to shell out for it.
BAKER: I've realized people will pay more. I'm kind of going back to the whole tipping argument. I think the thing about tipping and service charges, ultimately, it shouldn't even be a service charge. We should all just be charging 25% more than what we do for everything. Unfortunately, menu prices in this country kind of stagnated while everything else went up for the last 25 years. And it's a lot of ground to make up overnight. I realized when we were closed down for months that it was a chance to incrementally get things more in line with where they probably need to be for the new future, accounting for benefits for staff and stuff like that. I think there are totally people who will pay more money for better food.
AC: I'm going to switch gears to a more food-oriented topic. People want to dine out. They want to know what the new thing is, and I see the cool things you put out on social media. Are there any culinary trends that you're picking up on and incorporating into your menus?
JACOBS: You just used the word trend ...
AC: I know. It's such a terrible word. I'm sorry, Dan!
APRAHAMIAN: I don't even know what's on our social media.
JACOBS: You have a phone that does social media?
APRAHAMIAN: I don't on mine.
BAKER: I feel like, what are the food trends right now? I guess I don't even know, like suspended animation. What's interesting, I don't know.
APRAHAMIAN: Survival.
BAKER: Well, like pasta...
AC: That is absolutely the case, Zak. I think people are really wanting comfort right now, and part of it is COVID. So, Karen, they want your burger, they want your sandwiches. Zak, your pastas.
MUENCH: I feel like people are wanting to go back to service. There are so many eating experiences out there. You can walk into a Kwik Trip and get a version of sushi. I think
people are going to want to get back to dining experiences. Post-COVID, people are going to start mingling again, meeting up with old friends, lingering over, you know, a two-and-a-half-hour meal. I think it is going to be a big part of the near future, the next two to five years.
AC: Justin? I know trends aren't typically your thing…
APRAHAMIAN: Yeah. And learning so much from [Sanford co-founder] Sandy [D'Amato] and talking about [how] everything's a cycle anyway, so if we focus our energies on really good food and these ingredients available to us, it's going to be good, whether it's an in-vogue ingredient or not, if you're treating it the right way.
AC: Aaron, I'd like your input on this, too. As diners, we're craving that experience again, that socialization of being inside a restaurant.
BICKHAM: There is definitely a demand, and we're seeing it – people wanting to come back out. We are about the environment and the experience. We want to take the guests on a journey. As far as culinary trends go, I'm a foodie, I'm a chef, and I'm always paying attention to what's on Instagram. But at Bartolotta, we're sticking to cooking from our soul. We're trying to create from our journeys and our travels, and give that to the guests and teach our staff and stay true to our values.
AC: Kyle, what you are doing at Birch is a lot of really fresh, beautiful bright flavors. Tell me a little bit about that.
KNALL: My goal is that a guest can come in once a week or once every two weeks and have something different, see something different, and be excited about what they're eating. As far as the freshness aspect, that's how we like to eat. … We like to make sure we're using produce from [local farmers]. We know it tastes better that way. And that's kind of the root of it for all for us. [On the menu], we've got a walleye dish served on a warm ragout of cranberry beans. Beans are typically seen as cheap food or peasant food. It takes a lot of thought and care to cook them and make that dish vibrant. The coolest part is every ingredient is from the Midwest.
AC: Sounds great. There are so many things that I crave at all of your restaurants. Is there anything else you'd like to say to each other about cooking or the food and beverage industry here in Milwaukee?
BAKER: I miss going to all of your restaurants. Sarah and I, other than shortly after being vaccinated, I think we snuck out for one dinner and one lunch. That's it. And again, carry-out foods are good, but I know it's not what I would be getting if I was sitting at a table in your places. I miss that quite a bit.
AC: How many of you have been able to get out to other restaurants to eat?
JACOBS: Hell, yeah. I always feel like people come to our restaurants. I try to support as much as I can. [And] I will say one thing. Man, the food that Kyle's doing at Birch is I think the most exciting food in Milwaukee right now, so if you guys pick one restaurant [to go to], I think that's the place.
KNALL: Thanks, Dan.
JACOBS: I've only been here for 10 years, and it's been a wild 10 years of growth. When I moved here, you had Roots, Bartolotta and Sanford and that was it. And now there's so many great restaurants in the city and I can't wait to see what the future holds for our sous chefs and line cooks and what places they will end up, where they go from here.
AC: Kyle, you keep your menu driven by the seasons. What's your inspiration for creating dishes?
KNALL: Today we had to come up with a new pasta dish. So, we thought, what vegetables do we have available from farmers? We ended up coming up with a dish using three ingredients we had on hand. [A dish] might also be [inspired by] a technique. Like, we're putting pickled jalapenos and cilantro on a ricotta-filled pasta. We're always looking to those aspects to brighten it up. Here, it's some Mexico-driven ingredients.
AC: Joe, how are you approaching the menu at your new place, Buttermint?
MUENCH: Influences are everyone from Angie Mar [a NYC chef known for her decadent style of cooking] to Gramercy Tavern, Danny Meyer's restaurant [in NYC]. People really want to get back to dining. We were inspired by two things
– the Roaring
'20s and the progression of modern-day dining in the
1950s and '60s.
The idea is not fine dining, but finer dining. Finer dining is fun, not stuffy. It gives you endless opportunities to be creative. We just want to be a place that's accessible to everyone.
AC: That differentiation – fine and finer – is interesting. Dane, where do you think The Diplomat fits in there?
BALDWIN: I think we have some elements of fine dining – dishes elevated but not formal. I think back to the days I first started cooking. I started at Gil's Cafe [in the space now occupied by Downer Avenue's Cafe Hollander] in 2001 and I loved working there. Every job has prepared me for the next. Now, I think there's this feel of genuine dining [in the city]. A sense of honesty in our expression of cooking.
AC: That's better than fine dining!