Milwaukee Journal Sentinel - Packer Plus
Harlan, Wolf reflect on their time in Green Bay
The Green Bay Packers wallowed in mediocrity from 1968-91, posting only five winning seasons and two playoff appearances under five head coaches.
The course of the franchise was forever altered on Nov. 27, 1991, when president and CEO Bob Harlan introduced Ron Wolf as the Packers’ new general manager/vice president of football operations. Under their leadership, Green Bay again became one of the NFL’s elite franchises on and off the field over the next nine seasons. Harlan and Wolf reflected on their career highlights last week in a Q&A with Packer Plus.
Did you ever think you’d end up in Green Bay, Wisconsin?
Wolf: “No. I never truly gave that much of a thought. My whole experience had been in the American Football Conference, in the American Football League. I didn’t realize what a treasure Green Bay was until I got there. Ray Scott narrated a show called ‘The Grandstand Franchise.’ It was a wonderful tool to see what it meant to be part of an organization like the Green Bay Packers — a rare and unique franchise. All the history, the tradition. I used it in my nine years there to recruit people and bring players in. The city had some big plus factors: you can leave your house unlocked and didn’t have to worry about it. Schools were close. Rush hour was three people at a stop sign. You can’t imagine how thrilled I am to be part of the Packers organization and what an honor it is for your name to be up there (stadium façade) with all those greats that are truly legends in professional football. It signifies excellence. I mean you got Curly Lambeau, you got Vince Lombardi. You want to pinch yourself that you’re up there.”
Harlan: “When Madeline and I got married, I worked at Marquette University for six years. Then I went to the St. Louis baseball Cardinals for five years. And so when we came to Green Bay in ’71, I thought probably we’d be here four or five years. I was 34 years old at the time, pretty young, and thought I had a lot of moves left in me to get where I
wanted to go in my career. And here we are, 51 years later, I’m still here, as chairman emeritus still a small part of this great franchise.”
How did the hiring of Wolf come about?
Harlan: “It really starts in 1987. I knew about Ron a great deal in the league about his talents and working with Al Davis and the Raiders and everything. Judge Parins wanted to bring in a football person who could work with the head coach and they would share responsibilities 50-50. Ron was one of the names that was suggested of the people that he talked to. One of my assignments in working for Judge Parins was to go to the airport and pick up the candidates and get to know them a little bit and then bring them back to meet with the judge. Ron got in for his interview late on a Sunday night and got off the plane about 10:30 and said, ‘Boy Bob, I haven’t had anything to eat, could we get a bite to eat?’ So I took him down to the famous Denny’s on Oneida Street. The only place I could find on a Sunday night at 10:30 that was open. We sat there for about two hours talking football
. ... I was just really impressed with his knowledge and vision. The next day Ron goes in for his interview, he didn’t like the idea that it was a 50-50 split and he wouldn’t have very much authority, so he withdrew his name the very next day. I always thought that if we ever went looking again, we’d take a look at this man. In November 1991, when I decided to make a change late in the season and let Tom Braatz go I pursed Ron (first). And I knew we had to give him total control of the football operations, with no interference from me or the executive committee. We had to do something different to change the culture and direction of the franchise. What we had been doing for years just wasn’t working.”
Wolf: “I was on the road scouting with the New York Jets when Bob Harlan called me (approx. Nov. 22, 1991) about the job in Green Bay. Then we talked the next day quite a bit on the phone and it all came together really quick. I didn’t have an agent, but I had a (lawyer) look at the offer he faxed and we got it done. I was 52 at the time and wondered if I’d get a chance. Bob Harlan gave me an opportunity and I’m deeply indebted to him for that. He was a man of his word. He said you’re going to run the entire football operation and he allowed me to do that. Maybe I haven’t acknowledged that as much as I should, but I’m greatly indebted to Bob for his belief in me.”
What was the toughest challenge in rebuilding the franchise?
Wolf:
“Green Bay was perceived as the place GMs and players went to die. I think erasing the stigma with being attached to being a member of the Packers. Erase that stigma, because you heard it all the time. You guys aren’t any good so we’re going to trade you to Green Bay. We erased that, and we did it quickly. Actually, I think that perception was totally gone when Reggie White signed with the Packers. That opened a lot of eyes. And I had to immediately change the culture (under Lindy Infante). After one practice, I could see a big problem. There’s a country-club atmosphere. They’re a 3-10 team that acts like they’re 10-3 and that had to change.”
Harlan: “Just trying to keep up with everybody else in the league. Being the only team in the league without a deeppockets owner. Keeping us competitive on the field and having an operation that has the class and dignity that Green Bay deserves.”
What were the key acquisitions to begin the Packers transformation?
Harlan: “Ron turned the franchise. He changed every department in football operations: the scouting staff, the training staff, the video staff, the equipment staff. He just changed everything to upgrade it and bring us up to where it should have been in the early ’90s. Then he goes out and makes three very daring moves. Ron never made a move without coming to see me. He’d come to my door and say, ‘Bob, I’d like to this and I’ll tell you why.’ And I’d say, ‘Go do it.’ Ron told me when he left, ‘After nine years you never told me no,’ and I said, ‘You never made a bad mistake as far as I was concerned.’ His first move was to hire Mike Holmgren as head coach — the hottest coaching commodity in the NFL. Every
one was after Mike and we got him. Then Ron decides he’s going after a quarterback who’s sitting on the bench in Atlanta. I’m in the press box in Atlanta on a Sunday morning (Dec 1, 1991) and Ron comes up and puts his briefcase next to me. He says, ‘I’m going down to take a look at Atlanta’s backup quarterback and if his arm is still as strong as it was in college we’re going after him to make a trade.’ Walks away, it was that brief. So he leaves and I turn over the flip card (team rosters) to see who the backup quarterback is and it’s this guy named ‘Fav-ray.’ (laughs) As it turns out, Ron never got to the field because the press stopped him at the elevator and asked him so many questions. The game was about to start, so he just came back and sat down next to me. He says, ‘We’re going to make a trade for Brett Favre. Are you OK with that?’ I said, ‘Of course.’ His next move he made was to go after Reggie White. Everyone in the world wanted Reggie White and I didn’t think we had a prayer of getting him. We brought him to town and they got him. One day I said to Mike Holmgren, ‘With all the opportunities you had, why Green Bay? And he said, ‘Because Ron Wolf was here and I knew he’d get players for me.’ That simple. I posed the same question to Reggie White, ‘Why Green Bay? Who would have ever guessed you would have picked us.’ And he said, ‘I came to town and I was so impressed with Mr. Wolf and Mr. Holmgren. When I got on the plane I turned to my agent and said, Don’t be surprised if this is where we wind up.’ So Ron made three of the most significant moves in franchise history.”
Wolf: “We had a big challenge. We were fortunate because the first game I attended was in Atlanta, Fulton County Stadium, as executive vice president and general manager of the Packers. A friend of mine, Kevin Herock, ran the football operation for Atlanta. I was sitting up having a hotdog next to Bob Harlan, and (Herock) mentioned to me if I wanted to see Brett Favre throw that I’d better go now because when the team came out he wouldn’t be a part of that. So I knew right away we had an opportunity to get the guy that I considered the best player on the 1991 draft. And we went to work and eventually pulled that off. He was my first draft choice, if you will, because I gave up a No. 1 for him to Atlanta. I tried to go down to watch him
throw, but I couldn’t get through a couple TV stations from Milwaukee wanted to do some interviews. So I never did see Brett do anything at that game. I went back up and told Bob that we had a chance to get our quarterback of the future. He said, ‘Well good, there’s an executive committee meeting Tuesday you can bring that up to the board.’ And so I did. I’m sure that when I walked out of the boardroom after I told them about Brett Favre, those guys probably looked at Bob and said, ‘Who in the world did you hire?’ (laughs) Anyway, it worked out. I was actively in the game for 37 years and I was never around a better player than Brett Favre. And he was even better than I thought he was.”
What was your greatest accomplishment in your Green Bay tenure?
Harlan: “The football decision would have to be the hiring of Ron Wolf and change in the operation where we got one very strong and powerful person and put them in charge of the operation. We just had to do that. We had tried so many things. I mean, when I took over as president we had 24 straight years of mediocrity. We just couldn’t a way to win. We hired five head coaches and
each one had a worst winning percentage than their predecessor. From a football standpoint it was the hiring of Ron Wolf. He literally turned the franchise around with the moves he made and he’s in the Pro Football Hall of Fame because of what he did in Green Bay.
“On a business side, it’s got to be Lambeau Field. We had to do something. In 1999, as we sat down and looked at the financial future in Green Bay in the old stadium, my financial people had told me the way things are going with player salaries and forecasting the kind of revenues we have coming in that in five years we’re going to have to borrow $10 million just to fund this operation. So we set into motion the idea that we’ve got to do something with Lambeau Field — we have a treasure sitting here. We have to take advantage and bring it up to date and keep it open 24/7 every single week of the year. We made 15 trips to Madison to talk to the politicians. The politicians were not very happy with me because they had just come off Miller Park. They kept saying we just did a stadium can you come back to us in a year. I said we’ve got to move and get this started. We promised
them four things: it’s going to stabilize the financial future of the franchise, it’s going to keep the Green Bay Packers solvent in the NFL for decades to come, it’s going help us keep a competitive team on the field, and it’s going to bring visitors to Green Bay and Brown County from literally around the world. What we promised 22 years ago is still working. Our revenues jumped so rapidly. It’s unbelievable what that stadium has meant to the franchise.”
Wolf: “There were several. First of all we revitalized a dead franchise, no question about that. And I’m very proud that six guys that I hired in our scouting department became general managers in the National Football League and two won Super Bowl rings. My biggest moment was winning that championship game against the Carolina Panthers in Lambeau Field which allowed us the opportunity to go to the Super Bowl and play New England in New Orleans. All the negativity about what it was like to be associated with the Packers was erased that afternoon. We were the NFC champions and we were going to New
Orleans to play in the Super Bowl, and it happened in the citadel of the National Football League, Lambeau Field. There isn’t a better place to play a football game in the NFL than Green Bay, Wisconsin. And it culminated all the hard work, not only that I did, but all the people within our football operation and organization did, that enabled us to get there.”
The NFC championship victory over Carolina was such an emotional one. Why?
Wolf: “I was very emotional that day. More emotion than I think I showed anywhere, anytime, in my history there. It was an exciting day and meant so much. The Packers were finally champions again.”
Harlan: “It was a cold, bitter day. Ron and I were asked to go down on the field and receive the George Halas Trophy. The game ends and the PA announcer says, ‘The Green Bay Packers are going to the Super Bowl.’ I turned to Ron and said, ‘Just look at the stands.’ Everyone was hugging and kissing and waving towels and crying. I never saw so much happiness in one place. And I thought, who deserves this more than these people? All they put up with us in the ’70s and ’80s when we just could not find a way to turn that trick. Here they were, they stuck with us, and now we’re going to the Super Bowl. I said, ‘Ron, I could almost cry,’ and he said, ‘I could too.’ And it’s pretty tough to get Ron Wolf to cry. That was just a special game, a special moment.”
Your Super Bowl XXXI memories and what they mean to you?
Wolf: “That’s a hard one to try to explain to somebody, for me personally anyway. It was just a culmination of all those countless hours you work and here you are on football’s biggest stage and you’re a world champion. And again, you brought the Packers back to the top, and that’s something you can’t erase. It’s forever.”
Harlan: “At halftime we had a lead, but it was a tight game and I just wished it was over. I didn’t even want to have to play the second half. Then Desmond (Howard) got that kickoff and ran it back and I was unbelievably happy. I started going to the Super Bowls in 1977 and I used to wonder if I’d ever live long enough to see a Green Bay team here. Here we are Super Bowl champions, after
just five years with Wolf and Holmgren. They got us there fast after decades of struggle. The Lombardi Trophy was back home.”
Your fondest Brett Favre memory? Harlan: “Just being fortunate enough to witness his career. It was remarkable. When I was in baseball, I thought I’ve never been around a better competitor than Bob Gibson. I was a PR guy with the Cardinals and Bob and I didn’t have the greatest relationship, but I had great admiration for his guts and the way he fought. Then we came to Green Bay and Brett Favre turned out to be even a tougher competitor. He wouldn’t admit defeat and played through so much. I know he threw some bad passes and fans questioned why he’d throw that pass. Because he thought he could win every single game. He was with the perfect coach in Mike Holmgren to develop and learn under. Just the chance to
watch his career and watch him wind up in the hall of fame. I’ll never forget when he threw the first touchdown pass to (Andre) Rison in the Super Bowl in New Orleans and he takes off his helmet and comes running off the field with his hair flying. I said, ‘He looks like a five-yearold kid coming home telling his mom he just got a good grade in school.’”
Wolf: “My favorite moment was when Brett got first-ballot induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. With that, he became everything I thought he could become. As I said before, he was even better than I thought as a player. You know they call Yankee Stadium the house that Ruth built. The new Lambeau Field is the house that Favre built. I am so proud of all the things that he accomplished on the field. The great thing to me about Brett Favre was he never missed a game. He was always under center. I mean, you can’t find somebody
like that. I’m not fooling anybody; I based my career in Green Bay on Brett Favre by making that trade and he certainly did not let me down at all.”
What was the most difficult decision you had to make in your tenure?
Wolf: “The worst thing is you have to let people go. You have to let players go, you have to let coaches go. You’re affecting a lot of people’s lives... those were always very difficult situations. But you’re hired to do a job, and the job you’re hired to do is to win. And that’s something we did. We won 101 games in nine years. When I went in, I wanted to win 100 games in 10 years. Well, we did 101 in nine years that’s counting playoff games — those games count, they keep score. We turned that whole franchise around and I’m very proud of that.”
Harlan: “The toughest decision I ever
made was leaving Milwaukee County Stadium. I went to school at Marquette and worked at Marquette for six years. When we were students, we’d go out to County Stadium and there was a hole in the leftfield fence and we could crawl through that hole. I was a college kid and didn’t have much money but loved going to the games. Every time we’d have a meeting with the board of directors, our treasurer said we’re leaving $2.5 million on the table every year by playing four games at County Stadium. We kept adding luxury items (private boxes, club seats, team store, restaurants) and our revenue resources were enormous in Green Bay compared to County Stadium. We put together a plan to bring Milwaukee fans with us (for games 2 and 5). It worked out extremely well. I still run into fans who say thank you for the gold (season ticket) package. . . their parents and grandparents helped save this franchise when little Green Bay couldn’t support it in the ’40s and ’50s. We abandoned the stadium, but we’re not going to abandon the fans. That decision bothered me a great deal because I knew it hurt a lot of people. But it had to be done.”
What was your career low point? Wolf: “Can’t get any lower than losing Super Bowl XXXII. Maybe we were (overconfident) as favorites, but that other team from Denver had something to do with it too. I not sure we were ready to play that day — we got the chips handed to us. The real reason for your success comes down to the people you have playing the game. We thought we could get by without some of those people (from 1996 team). And it turned out we were incorrect in that assumption. Letting a guy like Sean Jones walk was stupid... the biggest mistake I personally made was not pursuing Sean Jones.”
Harlan: “That loss to the Broncos was a tough one to swallow with the team we had. It was very disappointing to lose that Super Bowl, but you have to give John Elway and the Broncos credit on how they played that day.”
What rivalry did you most appreciate?
Wolf: “I appreciated (Packers-Bears) rivalry the most because of what it meant to win. We did things Lombardi and Halas didn’t do. We had seven consecutive wins in Soldier Field and I think (Mike) Sherman kept it going a while.
We were 15-3 against the Bears. “I’ll never forget when I got there, an executive committee member, Tony Canadeo, told me, ‘I don’t care what you do, just beat them ‘Bares.’ (Wolf imitates Canadeo’s
voice and mispronunciation of Bears). We did that. I didn’t realize he was from Chicago, and I didn’t really appreciate what that meant until I became part of the Bears-Packers rivalry. That rivalry is unique, kind of like Army-Navy, something special.”
Harlan: “The Bears. When we were struggling in the 80s and they beat us every year, I had such respect for the way they played and the kind of players they had and how they ran their organization with Jim Finks as their general manager. I watched the Lombardi teams play when I was at Marquette and I knew the battles he had with George Halas and the battles Ditka had with Forrest Gregg. Even though some people say the Vikings, to me it’s still Chicago.”
Your thoughts on the future of the Green Bay franchise?
Wolf: “Maintaining their level of excellence is going to be the greatest challenge because when you’ve been up there as long as Green Bay’s has, people are always going to come in and try to knock you off. The Packers have been fortunate having a key player like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, my word, you go from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers. That’s a
lot of years of hall of fame quarterbacks and he’s still playing. Winning is awfully difficult. The fact that they’ve been as successful as they’ve been is a great tribute to those guys who are making the calls right now. (General manager) Brian Gutekunst is doing a helluva job and Matt LaFleur is a remarkable coach and they are able to stay on top because they have good players.”
Harlan: “First of all, I think we should all get down and thank our lucky stars that for 30 years we’ve had two of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game. Very unusual to have one, and we’ve had two back-to-back. After 24 years of mediocrity we’ve had 30 years of very exciting football because of two great quarterbacks. I’m very optimistic about the future. I think Green Bay is one of the greatest established franchises of any sport in America today. People love this franchise and want to work for it, they want to defend it, they want to make it better, they want to keep it in existence, they want to make it be among the best in the NFL. That will never change.”