Volker transcript made public
Kurt Volker, the former executive director of the McCain Institute who was a key figure in President Donald Trump’s efforts to get Ukrainian authorities to open a probe of a political rival, told congressional investigators he volunteered for his job as special envoy because he knew there was “a gap” between Washington and Kyiv.
“Some of you may have heard of (Arizona State University’s McCain Institute for International Leadership) ... and I did not feel that I could leave those responsibilities, to leave the McCain family or Arizona State University in order to take on a full-time position,” Volker told lawmakers.
“But, because I cared about the issues and I knew that we had a gap, that we were not ‘in the game’ on Ukraine in early 2017 the way we should be, I wanted to help.”
Volker’s Oct. 3 testimony in the impeachment inquiry about his time as a special envoy to Ukraine suggests he spent the summer trying to steady relations with the new president in that country while dealing with Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani’s “negative narrative.”
He also testified that he was “surprised” when he eventually learned about the content of the July 25 telephone conversation between Trump and new Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky that spurred the impeachment inquiry and that he never got an explanation as to why financial aid to Ukraine had been held up.
A transcript of Volker’s testimony was released Tuesday as House Democrats continue to make public pieces of the case they have built against Trump so far. Volker declined to comment about it Tuesday.
Volker, a longtime diplomat and an adviser with a Washington lobbying firm, quit as an envoy on Sept. 27 and stepped down from the institute he ran from its 2012 inception shortly after delivering his testimony.
The impeachment investigation centers on Trump’s efforts to secure an investigation by Ukrainian authorities of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter, who was a board member of Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company.
A whistleblower complaint raised concerns of the July 25 call in which Trump encouraged Zelensky to “do us a favor” and open a probe of the Bidens.
Since then, evidence has emerged of an unconventional, stealth foreign policy effort in Ukraine involving Giuliani, who is Trump’s personal attorney and who often dealt with Volker and other members of the U.S. diplomatic team.
Volker’s testimony added further details of his interactions with the Trump White House, Giuliani, and authorities in Ukraine. Excerpts of the testimony selected by House Democrats noted Volker’s efforts to establish a productive relationship between the Trump administration and Ukraine’s new president, Zelensky. At the same time, Volker sought to convince Giuliani that the information he was spreading about the Bidens had already been deemed false.
Volker recalled a meeting with Trump in the Oval Office in mid-May, after Zelensky’s inauguration. Energy Secretary Rick Perry, Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wisconsin, and others attended.
Volker said the group had a “very favorable” impression of Zelensky and they wanted to urge Trump to engage with the Ukrainian president to demonstrate American support for him. Volker said Zelensky would find it difficult going after “oligarchs and corruption” in Ukraine.
Trump, Volker said, held a “very deeply rooted negative view of Ukraine based on past corruption,” a viewpoint that was reasonable, based on the country’s past corruption.
“That’s why it was important that we wanted to brief him, because we were saying, it’s different, this guy is different,” Volker said.
The president was skeptical, Volker said, and invoked Giuliani’s name.
“And he gave the example of hearing from Rudy Giuliani that they’re all corrupt, they’re all terrible people, that they were — they tried to take me down — meaning the President in the 2016 election.”
On July 3, Volker met Zelensky in Toronto and told him he believed Giuliani was spreading a “negative narrative” about Ukraine that was “counteracting” Zelensky’s efforts.
“And I explained that I thought that there is a negative narrative about Ukraine that is counteracting all the good things that he is doing, and that we are officially communicating back, and that this is being amplified by Rudy Giuliani,” Volker said. “So this is a negative factor for Ukraine’s image in the United States and our ability to advance the bilateral relationship.”
Volker said of Giuliani’s activity: “In my view, it was impeding our ability to build the relationship the way we should be doing.”
He said Ukrainian officials “asked to be connected” to Giuliani to get their messages from Giuliani to Trump.
On July 10, Volker met with Andriy Yermak, an aide to Zelensky. Yermak requested to be connected to Giuliani and Volker set up an “introductory phone call” for the two of them on July 22. Volker was on the call and said Yermak and Giuliani agreed to meet in Madrid in early August.
Days later on July 18, Volker became aware that the Office of Management and Budget had placed a hold on $391 million in U.S. military aid to Ukraine. Though such aid sometimes gets held up for various reasons, he said this hold “struck me as unusual” because officials from the Pentagon, State Department and National Security Council thought the aid was important. Volker told lawmakers that he was “surprised” by the content of the July 25 phone call.
Ukraine is fighting Kremlin-backed separatists in the eastern portion of the country.
Volker presumed the hold was for budgetary reasons, since it came from the budget office and didn’t think the money would be held up long-term given the views of policy advisers. Volker said no one he talked to could explain the hold on the financial aid.
“Nobody ever gave a reason why,” Volker said. Given the significance of the aid package, and the bipartisan support for it, someone should have been able to give an explanation of why it was being held up. “But there wasn’t.”
While the White House withheld military aid, witnesses have said Trump’s team said Zelensky could meet him at the White House if Ukraine opened the probes the president wanted.
Volker’s text messages suggest he was laboring under the unconventional work conditions in the Trump State Department, but saw it as worthwhile.
On May 28, for example, Bill Taylor, the chargé d’affaires for Ukraine, texted Volker about his hesitancy to be drawn into matters where Trump’s chief of staff is involved in planning for a White House meeting with Ukraine’s president, but not the National Security Council.
“Do I want to enter this non-normal world?” Taylor texted Volker.
Volker responded, “Despite everything, I feel like we have moved the ball substantially forward over the last 2 years. I think it is worth it to continue to keep pushing.”
Even so, Volker struck a different tone after the July 10 White House meeting with Ukrainian officials.
Taylor asked Volker in a text message how the meeting went.
“Not good — let’s talk,”
By August, Volker was urging Ukrainian officials to address the concerns that Trump had expressed through Giuliani.
On Aug. 13, Volker was inspecting the proposed language of a Ukrainian statement announcing an investigation of interference in U.S. politics.
In a text message, Volker asked that the statement include “2 key items.” The investigation should include “Burisma and the 2016 U.S. elections,” Volker said.
Volker replied.