Spike Lee: 'Race relations today are a direct response to having a black president'
For more than three decades, Spike Lee has been one of the most vital forces in film-making.
His latest movie, Da 5 Bloods – about four African American veterans who return to Vietnam in search of the remains of their squad leader – is described by Peter Bradshaw as “a blast of satire and emotional agony about … the fact that black deaths matter”.
Last week, Lee released a new short film that spliced footage from his classic 1989 movie Do the Right Thing with the arrests of George Floyd and Eric Garner, both of which led to their deaths – proof that, even after three decades in the business, his work remains relevant.
On Wednesday, the director, 63, spoke to the Guardian over video chat from his office in Brooklyn, New York. He was ebullient as he answered questions sent in by readers and famous fans, often prefacing his responses to his peers with enthusiastic expressions of respect and affection.
* * * David OyelowoActor
You’ve always set an example of being outspoken about the things that matter to you in the film industry and beyond. Do you feel you’ve ever been penalised for that?
What’s up, David! Yeah, but when you speak truth to power there’s going to be resistance. You know that going in. Whatever they’ve dished out has not stopped me from what I’ve wanted to do for the past four decades. Thank you for the question.
MosheKatse
Do you ever get tired of people asking you your views on race relations in the US?
Yes. I don’t mind being asked; it’s how I’m asked. Many times, reporters are working on the assumption I’m speaking on behalf of 40 million African Americans. Which is not the case at all.
Halle BerryActor
What is the most challenging part of working with actors?
They start acting crazy. Hahaha! I love you, Halle, love you, love you. Jungle Fever was Halle’s first film!
ThisIsDan
If you could describe yourself in five words, what would they be?
That’s very hard. I can’t do it. Now, my wife could, but not me. What would she say? I don’t wanna know. No – I do know, I just don’t wanna hear it! Hahaha! No – I know, I just don’t wanna hear it again! Hahaha!
Lina WertmüllerDirector
Reality sometimes overcomes fantasy and the pandemic is a perfect example. Do you think future movies will be able to ignore an event of this magnitude, or will their authors be forced to deal with it?
Lina, I love you, I love you, I love you. Be safe, because I wanna see you and give you a big hug when we get over this thing. I think artists are gonna respond in many different ways to this pandemic. Movies, documentaries, novels, paintings, photographs, books: there’s gonna be great art coming out of this. And historians many years from now will specifically go to see how artists commented.
CitizenWise
Where would you be if you weren’t in the US?
If I couldn’t live in America, I would live in the People’s Republic of Brooklyn. Hahaha!
David LammyMP for Tottenham
When I watch the protests in the US, the sense I get is one of overwhelming tiredness. Tired of being shot in the street. Tired of waiting for progress. Tired of the never-ending struggle. How do you cope with weariness when injustice never sleeps? And what is the role of art in keeping us awake?
David, that’s a great question. I was very impressed when I met you more than once in London. You’re doing a great job, you’re fighting the good fight. You know the answer. The struggle continues and you just gotta keep fighting. So keep fighting!
Uppernorwood
Given slavery was the norm in all human civilisation until the 19th century, why do you think the US in particular struggles to deal with the consequences?
Let me answer this question with a question for this person they can’t answer right now. What other countries have handled racism or slavery better than the US? I’m not saying that waving the red, white and blue; but so often people look at America and all they see is blatant acts of racism and then they are deaf, dumb and blind to racism in their own country. I understand why the US gets the scrutiny, because supposedly it’s the cradle of democracy, and we do [racism] better than anyone else!
Also, because of Hollywood. Because of television. It is my belief that the US is not a leader in the world because we have more nuclear weapons than anybody; it’s the export of culture. Music, dance, Apple, Nike – that’s how America dominates.
George MillerDirector
Why do you think we are impelled to tell each other stories?
First of all, I gotta give love! My man’s not only a doctor, he’s a filmmaker! That’s the only time I’ve heard that combination; for me that’s like two sides of the brain. But I gotta say, love your films, love your films, love your films and one day I hope to meet you in person.
This may sound like a trite answer, my brother Dr George Miller, but storytelling is just part of being a human being. It’s what we do, from the very beginning, when we were writing shit on caves and whatnot. That’s how we communicate.
What moment or moments of all those you put on the screen most surprised you with its cultural impact?
Do the Right Thing. People still going back to that film, especially today. How can you look at the NYPD’s murder of Radio Raheem without thinking about Eric Garner and now Mr Floyd? It came out 31 years ago.
Michael MannDirector
I’m curious – since directors have no idea how any other director directs, because we’re never there – when you’re in that intense groove during weeks, months of shooting, what do you do to maintain your vision for your film offthe set? Do you prep, defocus to clear your head for the next day’s possibilities, socialise, stay isolated and meditative?
Michael Mann! Thank you for your question. Big fan of your work. It depends on the film, the scene, how I’m feeling that day. How the actors might be feeling, hahaha! You know what I mean! You know what I’m talking about! You just gotta go with the flow and the vibrations. You know better than me, Michael: this whole thing’s about vibrations that we give back and forth.
CountJackula
How did you get Nelson Mandela involved in Malcolm X?
I knew people that were close to Mandela and while we were shooting in Cairo we made arrangements to go to Soweto to film him. One of the greatest experiences ever. His only feature film is Malcolm X!
Francis Ford CoppolaDirector
I feel the most effective way to bring about change to the key areas of criminal justice, health care, education equality and childcare/nutrition is by allocating enormous funds; do you agree?
That’s the director of Apocalypse Now, which has two homages in Da 5 Bloods. And the Godfather trilogy. I’m not gonna disagree. And his wine is great, too. That’s my brother.
Haigin88
You strongly supported Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020: are you going to vote for Joe Biden?
Yes.
Kamasi WashingtonMusician
Nina Simone said that it is an artist’s duty to reflect the times. For the first time, it feels as though people of all races from all over the world have seen the light and are demanding an end to this evil. What role do artists and the arts in general play in this unique time, where we have the world’s attention and true change seems like it might be in our grasp?
Thank you for your questions. I think the role that artists take is the role they choose. All art is not the same and many artists refrain from politics in their work and feel it’s their job to entertain. This is something I’ve learned as I’ve got older: it is an artist’s individual choice to do what they want to do. Any artist who says they’re not going to comment? That’s their choice.
John TurturroActor and director
You have given voice to so many issues over the years that haven’t gone away; how do you feel about where we are and are you hopeful for the future?
John and I go way, way back. Our first film together was Do the Right Thing. John is one of the most beautiful, sincere human beings I’ve ever met in my life. I love John. That’s my guy. You know, a lot of the time, shit’s fucked up, but you just gotta fight the good fight. You know that better than me, John.
Ken LoachDirector
The long and terrible exploitation of black people lies at the heart of continuing brutal racism, not only in the US, but here as well. Christopher Logue wrote this in his poem Know Thy Enemy: “He does not care what colour you are / Provided you work for him.”How do we unite people of all races to know their real enemy?
Ken Loach?! The heavyweights!
Ken, my brother, I’m honoured. Ken, as you know, you are one of the great film-makers. So thank you for taking time out. I wanna meet you. Everybody who’s asked me questions who I’ve never met before: when this thing is over, I wanna sit down with you guys and talk and vibe. We don’t have to talk about cinema; we can talk about football.
But Ken, this is a great question. You gotta hold the mirror up. They gotta see what they look like, what they sound like and the hate they’re representing.
oliverhollander
Why did eight years of Obama fail to make substantial enough change to race relations in the US?
Very good question. But you have to understand: race relations – which have gotten worse – are a direct response to having a black president.
alanpease
Has anything fundamentally changed for the good since 1965?
That’s a hard question. We just buried King George Floyd.
DeJongandtherestless
Did you think race would still be such an issue in the US when you made Do the Right Thing?
Yes, but I never imagined this. What’s made it worse for me is the cameraphones. Before, you just read articles about it. Now, you are seeing these horrific murders. That makes all the difference in the world. The image of King George Floyd being suffocated for the last eight and a half minutes of his life went global and that is why we’ve had marches globally. People round the world saw a human being with this cop’s knee pressed against our brother’s neck, crying out for his deceased mother. You know what? As he was dying, I believe he saw his mother. His mother came to him in his last breaths.
That image hit people’s hearts all round the world and that’s why people took to the streets in England. Get a globe, spin it and, wherever you stop, there’s a good chance people were marching.
AllenRoy
We need a new Do The Right Thing now.
No. As long as I’m alive, there will be