David S. Goyer

The Dark Knight scribe and IP whisperer discusses taking ‘big-ass swings’ and the project that almost broke him: ‘I don’t think anyone involved in that film had a good experience’

David S. Goyer’s home office in the Hancock Park area of L.A. is lined with totems of personal significance. There’s a wall of comic books, which Goyer points at when asked his reaction to Stephen Dorff’s recent viral comment slamming Marvel movies as not legitimate art. There’s a framed Zen proverb that reads, “First tea, last tea,” which he’s taken to mean: Try to approach everything like it’s the first time you’re doing it — or maybe the very last time. And then there’s perhaps his most prized possession: a 1908 silver dollar peso from the Philippines.

As a 6-year-old in Michigan, Goyer found the coin while digging in a mound of dirt and was stunned to learn it was then valued at $400 — he literally found buried treasure. “It sounds corny, but to me this represents possibility,” says the screenwriter, whose 1998 smash Blade established him as a go-to talent who could translate comic book stories for a mass audience. In the years since, Goyer co-wrote all three of Christopher Nolan’s Batman movies and was kept around for Zack Snyder’s DC titles, too.

Now, the 55-year-old dad of three is taking a break from capes and cowls to adapt two iconic — and notoriously creatively complex — titles for streaming: Neil Gaiman’s metaphysical graphic novel Sandman for Netflix and Isaac Asimov’s cerebral, centuries-spanning Foundation

trilogy for Apple TV+. Goyer’s production company, Phantom Four, also is releasing the Sundance-acclaimed horror thriller The Night House, which he calls “a ghost story about grief,” into theaters next month.

DC has had some ups and downs in recent years, especially compared to Marvel. If you were running DC …

Which I’d never want to do.

But let’s say you were. What moves would you make next?

I think one of the issues is that Marvel’s had consistent leadership for the past 15 years or more, whereas DC hasn’t. One of the other things that’s made Marvel incredibly successful is all of its adaptations are true to the source material. Ant-Man feels like Ant-Man. The Hulk feels like The Hulk. They don’t try to change things up. So it’s having a consistent universe, having consistent leadership and staying true to the source material. Any time I adapt something, I always say, “Can we identify the 10 core elements that make Superman Superman? Or make Blade Blade? Before we even come up with a story.”

The Dark Knight is considered by some as the best superhero film of all time. Which one, in your opinion, holds that title?

I can tell you my top four: The

Dark Knight, Logan, Captain America: The Winter Solider and Thor: Ragnarok.

You’ve said you pitched Foundation as an eight-season or 80-hour story. What was Apple’s reaction?

No one knows if it will work, but I can say that there’s definitely never been a show like it on TV before. It takes some big-ass swings. And Apple, by and large, went for it. They had some trepidation about the science of it all. [Apple TV chiefs] Jamie Erlicht and Zack Van Amburg had come from Sony, so they had done The Crown and Breaking Bad, and what I said to them was: “Don’t note me on the science fiction. I can handle the science fiction. Note me on the drama, note me on the characters, note me on their relationships. I’ll take care of the other crap.”

How does the budget compare with some of the big features you’ve worked on?

It’s up there. I’ll say this: On an average per hour, if you were to take two episodes and put them together, the budget is bigger than some of the movies I’ve done.

What’s the best studio note you’ve ever received?

I actually received some pretty good notes from [Apple TV+ development head] Matt Cherniss [on Foundation]. We were twisting ourselves around the axle of trying to figure out how do we deal with these complicated time jumps and slightly left-of-center story structures. And he just said, “Fuck it, just lean in to it.” So, the structure changes from episode to episode. Most of the time, studio executives say, “How do you make it more normal?” He encouraged me to not do that.

And the worst?

There’s a note I got on Man of

Steel, where the ending involves Superman utilizing the pod that he arrived in as a child in order to bring down General’s Zod’s ship. The note said, “You have to change that … because if Superman uses that pod and it’s destroyed, how is he ever going to get back home to Krypton?” There was just this long pause, and we said, “Krypton blew up. You saw 30 minutes of it!”

What’s your work schedule like, and to what do you attribute your productivity?

I had a mentor named Nelson Gidding, who wrote a lot of films for [West Side Story director] Robert Wise. One of the things he always said is you need to treat writing like a job and not an art. Set a schedule, write in a place that’s not your home, or at least not your bedroom. Nelson also said you should travel a lot — something I really took to heart; I’ve been to about 50 or 60 countries and had experiences that got me out of this bubble.

You’ve been involved in a lot of projects with several big egos and a ton of studio pressure. How do you handle creative conflicts?

I hope I’ve developed a reputation for speaking with candor. My go-to is always what works for the story. And if I’m adapting IP like a comic book, I don’t try to turn it into something it’s not. So, I’ve advocated that the studio not make a project.

THR has reported that Bridgerton breakout Regé-Jean Page was up for the role of Superman’s grandfather in Krypton but that former DC exec Geoff Johns nixed it, saying Superman couldn’t have a Black grandfather. Can you confirm?

All I’ll say on this is that I was the one who wanted to cast Regé-Jean Page. I thought he was amazing. I thought his audition was amazing. I advocated very hard to cast him as Superman’s grandfather.

The internet needs to know: Is Patton Oswalt’s story true that Wesley Snipes tried to strangle you on the set of Blade: Trinity?

Let’s just say I have tremendous respect for Wesley as an actor. He used to be a friend. We’re not friends anymore. I am friends with Patton, and I worked with Patton since, so … I don’t think anyone involved in that film had a good experience — certainly I didn’t. I don’t think anybody involved with that film is happy with the results. It was a very tortured production.

Finally, what’s one comic book character you’ve always wanted to tackle?

There are things I’ve written that never made it to screen. I did an early draft of Doctor Strange about 18 years ago. I would love to write The Hulk — he was my favorite character as a kid.

Interview edited for length and clarity.

A model ceramic phrenology — the bogus science that purported to tell you things about your personality based on head shape. David Goyer, who meditates 15 minutes daily, was photographed July 13 at his L.A. home.

A signed pop-up book that Babadook director Jennifer Kent crowdsourced and made for the film. Photographed by Martha Galvan

From top: The slate from the final shot of Foundation’s season finale, which Goyer directed; a mask from Tijuana that once hung in the study of Goyer’s childhood home — “It scared me as a kid, and now I’ve taken it prisoner,” he jokes; and a Polaroid with JeanClaude Van Damme (left) taken on the set of Goyer’s first film, Death Warrant (1990).

Goyer bought this original poster from Chapter 10 of the 1944 Republic Pictures Captain America 20 years ago.