Panel talks racial justice disparities
>> Breaking down barriers in order to identify trauma and systemic inequities within the criminal justice system were priorities identified by assembled panelists during a Black History Month program.
“Let’s look at the numbers, and let’s not look away, and let’s talk about them. It is very ironic to me that racially conscious policies got us into this mess, but nobody wants to talk about race getting us out of this mess,” said Norristown Police Chief Mark Talbot. “We want it to be race neutral now that we’re trying to fix it, well it wasn’t race neutral to get us here. That’s not the path out.
“We’re going to have to develop a language around justice that is open to a conversation that we used to have in the other direction freely and fervently,” he continued. “A lot of motivation behind dealing with these racial
“We should ... use that same energy for our local elections and elect the leaders that are going to do the things that we’re talking about, that are committed to the things that we’re talking about, and our voice and our vote does matter.” — Panelist A. Nicole Phillips
issues until the question becomes, ‘OK, how can we fix it?’”
For Talbot, it starts with cultivating an opportunity for a truthful and unvarnished dialogue.
“We bring punishment in the face of trauma over and over again and we’re willing to lock people up for years and years and we say that’s a good idea,” Talbot later said. “That’s not a good idea. It doesn’t work, and it has never worked and if we’re gonna get ourselves out of it, we have to take a different standpoint.”
Talbot was among the panelists in a Montgomery County Black History Month series of virtual forums planned throughout February.
“I love the themes for this year, Black family representation identity and diversity, and today’s panel topic of criminal justice is so tremendously important in our community,” said Montgomery County Commissioners’ Vice Chairman Ken Lawrence Jr., introducing last Wednesday’s program. Lawrence is the first African American commissioner in Montgomery County, appointed in 2017.
The discussions, which are being broadcast via Zoom and streamed live on the county’s health and human services Facebook page, are covering a range of topics including education, faith and family and planning. More than 80 people participated in the Zoom forum Wednesday.
Moderated by Nia Coaxum, a prevention specialist for Montgomery County’s Office of Drug and Alcohol, along with Talbot, panelists included Magisterial District Judge Gregory Scott; Heather Lewis, a Norristown Municipal councilwoman and executive director of the Bail Fund in Montgomery County, and A. Nicole Phillips, a partner at Montgomery McCracken’s litigation department.
When discussing the nature of trauma, panelists turned to the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol.
“There were a lot of conversations and comments about if that were Black folks, there’d be bodies all in the street and that is a real thing,” Lewis said. “People don’t want to acknowledge that if that happened, and if that crime was committed by anyone else, they surely wouldn’t be getting organic food in prison. They wouldn’t be out on bail because these are felony crimes.”
“Where is the level of accountability for those … thousands of people that were there that day that committed crimes against our country?” Lewis went on to say.
When talking about other instances of trauma, Lewis pointed out two factors: the “war on drugs’’ and “private prisons.” She said the former “further villainized and criminalized Black and brown folks,” while the concept of privately owned prisons “highlights the regression of Black and brown bodies being a commodity; something is to be made money off of at the trauma, and the tearing apart of Black families.”
That damage has had lasting impacts. According to Tara Gaudin, director of Montgomery County’s Department of Health and Human Services, one in 15 African-American men are incarcerated as compared to one in 106 white men. Gaudin offered those statistics at the start of the panel talk, which she helped organize.
“We know that the disproportionate amount of those who have been incarcerated have been Black males, and what did that do? That directly impacted the Black family,” Phillips said, “taking our men and our fathers out of the family.”
Lewis noted a connection between those who experience incarceration and the eventual experiences of trauma that follow.
“You can’t be incarcerated and not have trauma,” Lewis said. “You can’t be incarcerated and there not be racial disparities.”
Phillips agreed, hearing from clients she represents who’ve experienced ranging instances of trauma including living in poverty, witnessing violence and lacking access to resources.
“I don’t think I’ve talked to anyone that was charged with a crime who doesn’t have trauma that has contributed to where they are,” she said.
According to Gaudin, African-American women are three more likely than white women to be incarcerated. She added that African-Americans make up a significantly higher portion of prison populations, and are “sentenced to death at significantly higher rates than their white counterparts.”
Gaudin cited a federal justice department report that found “African-Americans were approximately three times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than white motorists and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with police.”
Phillips recalled a situation where she experienced “driving while Black.”
“I can even speak from the place of being stopped and racially profiled myself. That was traumatizing,” she said. “Especially when I had a 7-year-old and a 9-yearold in the backseat … on a highway in the South, not knowing what was going to happen.”
As panelists identified example after example, Talbot noted that these systemic issues run deep.
“There’s really nobody holding the system and those that are leading in the system accountable from the suffering that is being created,” Talbot said. “So I think all stages, we know that all stages of the criminal justice process land more heavily on dark skinned people. It just does.”
“If you take just a second to look at any of the numbers around stops, searches, arrests, bail, sentencing, parole, the numbers are all horrendous, and the only way that you could not know is if you’re not looking,” he continued. “That’s the only way to not know, and if you do know, and you’re not doing anything about it, then you don’t care, and I think that is the biggest part of the problem.”
Participants of Wednesday’s conversation acknowledged gaps affecting residents each and every day, public officials emphasized the importance of finding other avenues to create tangible solutions.
“We have disparities there. Where some would say where that’s the district attorney’s role, or that’s the judges role, the commissioners have the power to budget,” Lawrence said. “We have the power to appropriate, and that’s why I’m proud that we had three offices that are growing this year.”
“The power of the purse is a powerful thing,” Scott said.
In addition to highlighting the county’s health and human services and voter services offices, Lawrence touted the efforts of the emerging county pretrial services department.
“We have people who are in jail, not because of the crime they committed, they haven’t been convicted of a crime,” he said. “They’re there because they can’t afford the bail.”
“There’s a lot of work to be done. I’m committed to this work. I want to be held accountable for it,” Lawrence went on to say.
Having these candid and honest conversations must lead to the acknowledgement of these issues to create a path forward for lasting change.
“We’ve got to look for restorative solutions in the places where we’ve created suffering. Suffering comes out of the same neighborhoods over and over again,” Talbot said. “This problem is not something that is happening everywhere, and I think that’s why we can often ignore it.
“It is happening in very defined spaces and because we still live in a highly segregated country; we can choose to ignore what happens in some neighborhoods while we focus all our resources on other neighborhoods and it’s just not a workable way to move forward,” he continued.
In order to continue the momentum from Wednesday’s discussion, panelists urged listeners to serve on juries and to get involved with organizations. With respect to the Reuniting Families Bail Fund, Lewis added the organization has raised $30,000 to assist 12 community members in Montgomery County. To learn more or contribute a donation, visit bailfundmontco.org.
Speakers agreed that area residents should also continue exercising their civic duty by voting in elections, referencing the 84.27 percent voter turnout rate during the 2020 presidential election.
“We should ... use that same energy for our local elections and elect the leaders that are going to do the things that we’re talking about, that are committed to the things that we’re talking about, and our voice and our vote does matter,” Phillips said.
The next Black History Month virtual forum covering parenting and family will take place from 12-1:15 p.m. on Feb. 17. For more information, and to register for the event, visit www. montcopa.org/blackhistorymonth.