Council takes step to explore trash options

Town is divided on issue, officials say

The trash talk in Lansdale will continue, and appears to still be split.

Council voted Wednesday night to seek a trash consultant to study whether a single hauler makes sense for the town, after another lengthy debate about the pros and cons of doing so.

“I’m all about collecting more information, and getting the proper answers. Where I’ll vote on this, doesn’t mean I’m for or against single hauler or municipal trash,” said councilwoman Mary Fuller.

“It means that, for no cost, I am willing to see what it’ll take to gather some proper information,” she said.

Trash hauling has been discussed repeatedly over the past decade, with the most detailed talks in 2015-17, when council asked the town’s engineering firm to study the pros and cons of establishing a municipal department to handle trash collection, hiring a single private firm for the entire town, or continuing to allow residents to choose their own haulers.

A borough request for bids led to several haulers being disqualified due to incomplete applications, and council’s public works committee recommended council accept a bid from private hauler J.P. Mascaro to carry trash for the whole town, before full council subsequently voted it down.

A new round of talks began in January when council members asked to revisit the trash topic, to see whether a single hauler could help reduce the town’s road repairs due to potholes and deterioration, and residents have sounded off in several subsequent meetings on both sides of the issue.

The debate continued on Wednesday night, with a motion before council to direct staff to prepare and advertise a request for proposals seeking a consultant to study single hauler options, municipal trash, and/or electronics recycling — a motion that public works committee chairman BJ Breish said was meant to learn more.

“I hear the comments, both good and bad, from the community. I’d like to learn what the facts are, and in order to learn what the facts are, I think the right way to go about it is to seek these proposals,” he said.

Resident Richard Lewis said he saw little difference between this approach and the prior attempt: “I

would suggest the only thing you're doing differently is going to be wasting a little less borough money this time.”

“We clearly indicated to the council, four years or so ago, that we weren't interested in this. We still aren't interested in it. So we don't need a consultant. We just need a little common sense,” he said.

Based on the prior study and his research, Lewis added, buying trash trucks for a municipal department would cost $200,000 to $400,000 each, so four to six trucks could cost over $1 million, before the costs of drivers, maintenance, and setting up a drop-off site or charges to haul anywhere. Resident John Darab asked why the town would want to look into doing so themselves, when other firms specialize in doing so.

“You need to get people and trucks. That trash bin, when it's picked up, it needs to go somewhere, and that's the problem. Where are you going to drop it? And you want the borough to be responsible for that? There are people in that business who know it far better than us,” he said.

“And you want to go to a consultant? Who is going to charge you, what, $200 an hour? Having been a consulting engineer, it's lovely: we just spend money until the client says ‘Nope, you ain't getting where we want you to go,'” he said.

Former councilwoman Anne Henning-Scheuring said she has a space concern too: “We have no place in Lansdale to build a place to put trash trucks, so we'd have to rent one out. We have no place, once we collect the trash, to dump it, so we're going to have to pay someone to get rid of the trash.” Rose Chapman said she's been following the committee talks closely, as she did the last round of talks in 2016-17, and asked council if they have done the same.

“You were voted in to represent the residents. And you may listen. But I don't think you hear: you do what you want, and waste our time and money. I think you've heard from enough people that they don't want it,” Chapman said.

Diane Messa asked, if the trash hauler discussion advances, where else could it go? “Trash trucks aren't the only thing that damage the roads. Are we gonna start controlling school buses? Are we gonna make construction vehicles go on certain roads? Delivery people? Amazon? They come up and down my street every day.”

And Kevin Dunigan, chairman of the town's planning commission, said he's recalled three prior rounds of talks, and said those who cite the argument about wear and tear on local alleys should keep in mind who those alleys belong to.

“My property line extends to the center of the alley, as do everyone else who's attached to an alley. So thank you for your concern, but I think your concern to the street in front of my house would be much more appropriate. It's going to save the streets, it's going to save the environment, it's going to save the children, we've heard it all,” he said.

He then asked council to consider nearby Souderton, which did switch to a single hauler in 2016 and has since seen costs increase sharply: “Their streets are no better, their trash hauler is worse. There is no evidence that any of this (benefits) takes place, because if it would, then Souderton Borough would be the yellow brick road. All of the roads would be beautiful.”

Nancy Frei said she's seen neighbors innovate and find different ways to address their trash, that a single hauler wouldn't allow: “they either take it to their rental property, or take it to their business. Some residents on my block, we all use the same container, and they chip in for that,” adding that she was “livid” when she received a flier from one hauler in February: “I think we should have our freedom of choice, to pick who you want. You have control of that.”

After the close of public comment, several council members asked for specifics on what the motion would ask staff to do. Breish said he's heard from staff that they have already begun hearing from consultants that specialize in the field, and the RFP would let staff seek formal proposals, with cost estimates, for a deeper look — comparing it to a home repair project.

“We got quotes, and found out how much it was going to cost, and then we were able to look at the project and make an informed decision on what direction to proceed. We're at the very beginning of this, and we want to look at the options,” he said.

Councilwoman Carrie Hawkins Charlton asked if one or more public townhall meetings or info sessions could be part of that process, and Breish said they could, depending on the responses from the consultants. Borough Manager John Ernst added that he's received a total of 32 emails on the topic since talks began, as of March 2, with 23 in agreement with a single hauler, five opposed, and three saying they'd want a municipal hauler option.

“There does seem to be some broad interest in this conversation,” Breish said.

Councilman Rich DiGregorio said he thought the discussion “should be on hold for a while, because I think we have other important things to deal with,” such as the road and infrastructure repairs. Fuller said she thought voting ahead the RFP now could incorporate lessons learned during the last round of talks, particularly the problems with the bid package back then that led several bidders to be disqualified.

“I do think the last time we tried this, it was flawed, to say the least. I think there is information to be gathered out there, and I would like to put this to rest, one way or another, soon — or at some point in my tenure,” Fuller said.

Council President Denton Burnell said he recalled the large crowds that turned out last time, as well as those who may have voiced the opposite thoughts via email or calls to council members.

“The reality is, this borough is a lot more divided on this topic than you all want to admit. I actually think that, based on those numbers, that more people who live here would be perfectly happy to have a single hauler than not,” he said. “I'm actually in favor of a single hauler, I just don't think right now is the time” to have the discussion.

Council then voted seven-to-two in favor of directing staff to issue the RFP, with DiGregorio and Burnell casting the only votes against. Borough council next meets at 8:30 p.m. on April 5, with the public works committee meeting starting at 6:30 p.m., both at the borough municipal building, 1 Vine Street. For more information visit www.Lansdale. org.