ALI PROVOCATIVE IN 1966 Q&A
Larry Boeck was a longtime sports journalist for The (Louisville) Courier-Journal who covered Muhammad Ali for years. Boeck died in 1972. Here are excerpts from an interview Boeck did with Ali, then 24 and the heavyweight champ, in 1966:
Q: How about when you were saying, “I’m the greatest” and all that?
A: I was only campaigning, like a mayor. He walks the streets, passes out pamphlets, picks up kids, little babies and goes out of his way to meet you. Next day you try to see him and you need a necktie and an appointment.
Q: You were a big hit in London and you were very subdued apparently. Arthur Grafton (attorney for the Louisville Sponsoring Group behind Clay) said you were a tremendous ambassador for your country. Were you less talkative?
A: Well, you know, coming up through the Olympics and the Golden Gloves, I wasn’t talkative. The people in Louisville know me. I didn’t brag and talk.
Q: You talked some …
A: (Interrupting) Yeah, but not this confident stuff. I talked of the future and what I would like to do, but no boasting and poems saying I’m the greatest.
Q: The way you acted in London must have been the way you conducted yourself on the Carson shows (Clay recently made three well-received appearances on the Johnny Carson “Tonight” television program). People keep asking me which is the real Clay, the one they read about or the one they saw on television?
A: I get along with Johnny Carson. He speaks nice, he asks me nice questions, he treats me like a man, calls me by my name, Muhammad Ali. … I treat people like the Bible say, “Do unto others as you want them to do unto you.” Whoever he is, what color, whatever he is, if he treats me nice and respects me, I’m forced to treat him the same. And if he corner me and get boastful and arrogant, then I’m gonna get boastful and arrogant back with him.
Q: Do you feel that you are really a popular champion?
A: Well, I’m so popular that I’m recognized as an athlete, as a boxer. Now any boxer that was recognized by heads of state, such as a president — Nasser invited me to Egypt, the president of Lebanon invited me there — I think that’s popular. In London, they mobbed me — a sellout fight. … And in Sweden I’d say I was more popular. Little babies and women. There’s never been a champion as popular as me.
Q: A lot of the people we saw today (Clay and Boeck spent a day visiting his old neighborhoods and friends), they all said, “Hello, Cassius.” When I see you, the first thing that comes to my mind is “Cassius.”
A: If I’m on the street and if I meet a fellow, colored or white, if he walks up to me and says, “How are you, Mr. Clay?” or “How are you, Cassius?” — Cassius is not a bad name in our faith. Clay is the name, the slave name. It’s the last name we change. We usually keep the first name and make the last name “X.” Now even if they just say Clay, many times I just say nothing. It’s according to how they approach me.
Q: In other words, what you resent is if somebody knows your name is Muhammad Ali and stubbornly say Cassius?
A: Yeah, if somebody comes up and says “How you doing, Cassius, ole buddy,” or “Meet Mr. Clay, you’re a good boy,” I say my name’s Muhammad Ali, no more Clay.
Q: What are your feelings now that some of our congressmen have expressed themselves about the Vietnam War? Do you feel they are saying stronger things than you did?
A: Much stronger, but they have the complexion and the connection to get away with it.
Q: You think it is just complexion?
A: The complexion and the connection.
Q: Is there really a difference in your speaking as the heavyweight champ and a senator speaking as a senator?
A: I’d say we are both popular fellows. He’s speaking as a man in government. It’s really his job. But the things I say, and most athletes are not bold enough to say, may cause a disturbance. They say, “Stick to your trade.” And then if a senator got up and started boxing, they would say, “Stick to your trade.”
Q: Why do you think you’re controversial? Or do you?
A: First of all, ( because) I’m the heavyweight champion of the world. … And whatever a fellow do, whether he advertise cigarettes, whiskey, shaving cream, whatever he advertises, people are going to notice it. Whatever church you belong to, whatever movies you’re in, they’re going to recognize you —like the Statue of Liberty. … And the world know that I am a Muslim and that Elijah Muhammad changed my name to Muhammad Ali. Naturally, that caused a disturbance with people who knew me as Cassius Clay. I’m from a race of people here in America that number nearly 30 million. Of these 30 million, they all are striving for freedom, justice and equality. Here I am the heavyweight champion of the world who is not identified with the masses of the people in the way they prefer to seek freedom, justice and equality. They are believing and fighting for total integration where I believe and have been taught that in order to have respect we must respect our own, and must clean our neighborhood and must do something for ourselves. We must respect our own women — we must first love ourselves, then love everyone else.