One-on-one: Nigel Winterburn on the Crazy Gang, Arsene’s chocolate ban and his entirely reasonable fear of Di Canio
DID HE BOTTLE A FIGHT WITH DI CANIO? WHY DID HE WIN 3 TITLES BUT ONLY 2 CAPS? HOW DID HE SNEAK CHOCOLATE PAST WENGER?
When FFT asked Nigel Winterburn to recreate the time Paolo Di Canio could have flattened him, we weren’t sure how he’d react. “You won seven major trophies, Nige, but will you relive your most embarrassing moment for us?”
We needn’t have worried. “Oh, that’ll be easy – I’ve got that pose down to perfection!” he says, smiling, seemingly delighted we’ve raised the idea when we meet at Winterburn’s home on the outskirts of Aylesbury, where an Arsenal league title winners’ pennant proudly hangs in the corner of the room.
Not only is he willing to re-enact his infamous flinch against Di Canio, having squared up to the Sheffield Wednesday hothead after the Italian pushed referee Paul Alcock, Winterburn throws himself into the photo shoot with astonishing levels of enthusiasm, accompanying his poses with a running monologue.
“Tensing because Paolo is about to hit me!” he yells, adding a comical ‘Ooooh!’ of his own volition. “My wife will wonder what I’m doing in here!” he laughs. His puzzled spouse quietly gets on with her afternoon in another room.
Winterburn doesn’t take himself too seriously, and soon he’s regaling us with stories of the Crazy Gang, nights out at Arsenal, and the best way of smuggling a Mars bar past Arsene Wenger…
How did it feel when you had to leave Birmingham without playing a game? Tony Hudson, Coventry It was a shock. I signed pro forms under Jim Smith, but then he got the sack and Ron Saunders was appointed. Three or four months after I’d signed, I was told, “Actually, we don’t think you’re good enough.” Jim Smith had gone to Oxford and he gave me a six-month contract. A few weeks later he said, “Wimbledon are looking for a left-back – do you want a trial with them?” I thought, ‘Two clubs are better than one’, so went along and stayed for four years.
Joining 1980s Wimbledon when you were just 19 – intimidating, much? Steve Blayney, Sutton I wasn’t really intimidated. Dave Bassett thought some of the squad might eat me alive, because I’m quiet off the field, but he said he’d never seen someone change so much as when he put me on the pitch. We had massive characters: Wally Downes, Dennis Wise, Alan Cork, John Fashanu, Dave Beasant and Kevin Gage. We were a mish-mash of players with an amazing spirit – like a pub team. Every season we were favourites to go down, whatever division we were in, but that pushed us to prove people wrong.
I was player of the season four years on the spin at Wimbledon. I don’t know whether it was fully justified for all four years but there were only about 6,000 supporters, so once you’d won the first couple, there was a pretty damn good chance you were going to win it again!
Are you glad you didn’t join Chelsea? Sharon Esteves, Clapham Yes. Chelsea had agreed a fee, but a day later they signed Tony Dorigo – maybe he was cheaper than me! Then Arsenal came in. Once I walked into the marble hall at Highbury to meet George Graham, I knew that was the club I wanted to sign for. He could have offered me anything and I would have signed. I’m pleased with the way things worked out for me.
Which was madder: the Crazy Gang or the Tuesday Club at Arsenal? Lee Pethers, via Instagram That’s a tough one, as the Crazy Gang was pretty mad! The players would do stupid things, like nailing your shoes to the floor. We got on with Dave Bassett, but when we went away he would give us details of where we were staying, so the girlfriends and wives knew, and it would say we were staying at a De Vere five-star hotel, but when we turned up we were actually staying with the army or in a youth hostel. One time when we were abroad, we chucked his bed from the fourth floor into a swimming pool!
I was part of the Tuesday Club, but not a full member – that was guys like Niall Quinn, Ray Parlour, Tony Adams and Steve Bould. They were big drinkers. If there was no midweek match, we’d usually finish training at lunchtime on a Tuesday and go into town. There were 12, 13, 14 of us. Some left at 6pm; some by 10pm; some were still out at 6am!
You seem more strait-laced than your old Arsenal team-mates, so were you the designated driver for nights out? Chris Moors, London There was no driving! You got a lift, the train or a taxi – there was no way I was taking a car. You’d know if the lads were
“DI CANIO WAS RANTING AWAY, THEN HE STOPPED. I THOUGHT, ‘I’VE PUSHED IT TOO FAR, HE’S GOING TO SMACK ME’. I MOVED BACK AND THEN... HE DIDN’T”
going out because they’d all be dressed slightly smarter than normal at training and wouldn’t have their cars with them.
Assistant manager Stewart Houston was sent to track us down once because George Graham had been getting letters from supporters saying, ‘Your players are going out drinking’. It was winter and we’d gone along to a wine bar – I can’t remember where; maybe Golders Green or Potters Bar – when suddenly we saw this face outside and a hand wiping the window to look in. The lads were saying, “Who is that?” Someone went outside to find out and Stewart said, “I’m really sorry. The boss sent me to look for you.” We said, “Come on in and have a drink.” So, he had a few drinks with us. He said, “I’ll tell the boss I couldn’t find you!”
Could your missed penalty in the 1988 League Cup Final defeat to Luton have destroyed your Arsenal career? Craig Green, Doncaster Quite easily – particularly if we’d lost the league in 1989 as well. That season we’d missed several penalties so I offered to take one, but I missed and then we lost, which was devastating. Thankfully we were able to change things by winning the league the following season. If we’d lost that, too, I’d have felt it personally.
You were there alongside Michael Thomas in the last minute at Anfield, when he won Arsenal the title. Did you want him to square the ball to you? Gogettheguitar, via Twitter No – after missing the penalty against Luton, I didn’t want that coming to me! [Laughs] I was thinking, ‘Please don’t give it to me – I don’t want to scuff this wide and be blamed for two things in two years…’ So I was delighted when he scored! Caught up in the moment, I ran. I had no idea where I was going.
We knew it would be a massive task, because Liverpool never lost at Anfield, but George Graham was confident that we could do it. People thought we’d try to push Liverpool back, but he said, “We can’t concede.” He told us if we didn’t concede, and then we got a goal, they’d panic – and they did. I put the free-kick in for the first. It was my goal, wasn’t it? People still ask me whether or not Alan Smith touched it! Liverpool could have sat back but they came at us, wave after wave. John Barnes could have taken the ball into the corner in the last minute, but he tried to score, which gave us the opportunity to nick that second goal.
Michael Thomas or Sergio Aguero – which was the greater moment? Lisa Charles, Stockport There’s no comparison, is there? People only talk about the Aguero goal because it was on Sky, which didn’t exist in 1989. You’ll never again get two teams playing each other on the final day, both going for the title. Aguero’s goal was good, but this was sensational.
The celebrations were pretty good for the week, too. They’d been great before we’d even left Anfield, then all the way back on the coach, and I think we went to a snooker club and had a lock-in. We were the league champions – we would have found anywhere that night!
How did you end up being nicknamed ‘Nutty Nigel’? Seamus O’carroll, Islington I’ve no idea where it came from. It may have been the supporters. People say to me, “Nutty, how are you?” I reply, “I’m not nutty – I’m actually pretty normal!” But when I went on the pitch something flipped in my brain sometimes.
Did you receive a Christmas card from Brian Mcclair [below] in 1988? Holly-chris Morgan, via Facebook [Laughs] I don’t think I did, and I don’t think I’ll ever get one either! He missed a penalty at Highbury. I went up to him and thanked him for missing, which he didn’t take too well… That’s the change in me from the player to the guy you’re talking to now. Sometimes, when I got home, I’d think, ‘Why did you do that?’ I did regret doing that. Things escalated from there between us and Manchester United, though I hold no grudges and if I saw any of those guys today, I would shake their hand. Once the game finished, it was over. For certain people, it probably wasn’t, and I don’t know how Brian feels about it now – but I couldn’t care less.
I loved that rivalry with United. Those were the games I wanted to play in: explosive, but fun. I’d like to think I helped to start the rivalry – Alex Ferguson usually blames me! I was pleased when Cesc Fabregas lobbed that pizza at him in 2004 – it gave him something else to talk about rather than me!
What was it like being in the middle of the infamous Old Trafford brawl of 1990, which led to points deductions? Steve Barlick, Glossop I came in for a tackle, caught the top of the ball and hit Denis Irwin. Then I was lying on the floor with two people giving me a good kicking in the back – I’ve no idea who. [FFT: One was Brian Mcclair…] If it was, I couldn’t blame him! [Laughs] Then everyone came in. The only player not involved was David Seaman. Lying on the floor was the best place to be, as I got a couple of little kicks in the back instead of a slap around the face. I was quite happy with that. I got away lightly!
Was the Arsenal back four – Lee Dixon, Steve Bould, Tony Adams and you – the best we have ever seen in modern English football? Francis Dolan, Cambridge I don’t know – you’ll have to tell me – but I loved playing in it. Under George Graham we put in a lot of hard graft together. If, today, the manager took the back four and asked them to do the sort of things we did, the players would just laugh at him. We would be on the pitch – just the back four and nobody else – for 40 minutes, walking around without a ball. In essence, George Graham was the ball: wherever he went, we’d move into positions to adjust. We spent hours and hours doing it. Back then, you had to be a good defender and then you’d work on your ball distribution. It’s a role reversal nowadays: a player has to be very good on the ball, then a coach will try to make them into a good defender. The change has been incredible, really.
The Gunners’ offside trap featured in The Full Monty. Did the real back four ever do the Full Monty themselves? Eddie Stanley, Barnsley [Smiles] I’m not sure you’d get our back four to do that; ask the other three first... I’ve watched the film a few times and it brings a smile to my face when I see it. Actually, we didn’t really play offside at Arsenal. If the forwards made a straight run and there was pressure on the ball, we would hold the line. But if there was no pressure on the ball, or if the strikers made a bendy run, we dropped off. We always put our arms up because if you get it wrong or it’s close, then let me tell you: the linesman starts twitching if you sling an arm up. He’s thinking, ‘Oh God, they think it’s offside – I must’ve missed something’. Usually they raise their flag!
Why were you and Paul Merson sent home from Singapore in 1990? Lee Paxton, Uxbridge We played Norwich on a Saturday in the last game of the season, drew 2-2, then flew to Singapore. On the Friday evening, the squad had gone for a walk without the management and we all sat down in this racquet club, just talking. One of the guys said, “Do you want a pint?” and we thought, ‘Last game of the season? Yeah – go on’. There were 12 or 13 of us and we had a pint, then everyone drifted off. Four of us were left but the table was full of pint glasses. Then George Graham arrived. He looked at the glasses and said, “Good evening, was it? No problem – finish your drink and go.” We thought nothing of it, but the next day [physio] Gary Lewin told us George was fuming.
We flew to Singapore, played a game, then were due to stay there for five days’ holiday. But managing director Ken Friar called us to the hotel lobby, said, “One, two, three, four,” handed us tickets and said we were flying home. The other lads stayed. I’ve still no idea if George knows the whole squad was there that night. He’d have had to go on holiday alone!
What did you say to David Seaman after Nayim’s winner for Zaragoza in the 1995 Cup Winners’ Cup Final? Kelly Talbot, Bristol I didn’t say much, because I came off injured just after half-time and wasn’t really focused on the match after that. I had an injection before the warm-up and another one at half-time, but then I couldn’t move as my leg was rigid. It was a wonder-strike from Nayim, and a massive disappointment as we were favourites in Paris, but the final against Parma the season before was brilliant.
Parma were big favourites. We’d been taken to the wrong entrance before the match in Copenhagen and saw UEFA doing a rehearsal, putting a podium on the pitch that read, ‘Parma – Winners’. We all thought, ‘What’s going on here?’ Alan Smith scored after 20 minutes and the game felt never-ending – bodies on the line. But it was an incredible night, winning the Cup Winners’ Cup.
George Graham or Arsene Wenger? Joseph Wright, Melton Mowbray I wish I had a pound for everyone who asks me that! If you wanted a manager to tell you to go out and play, it’s Arsene Wenger, because he prefers to work on the attacking play and expects you to be able to organise yourself defensively. For style of play, I’d always pick him. If you wanted someone to organise every detail, it’s George Graham. He taught me so much, and there were probably three or four stronger squads than us in 1989 and 1991, but we still won the league. I’m ducking out of the question a bit, but if you had a combination of both, you’d have an unbelievable manager.
“GEORGE GRAHAM WO UH LO D PUO TL UE SR OE NB THE TRAINING PITCH – JUST T HE EH BT AE CB KO FOUR, NOBODY ELSE – FOR 4M 0S MI IE NH UD TEN SA , WALKING AROUND WITH O! UR TE AN BS AE LT LI ”
Did you really sing, ‘We want our Mars bars’ at Arsene Wenger? Liam Nolan, Finsbury I did! [Laughs] He wouldn’t let us have anything – no sugar, nothing. We would travel by train a lot, and the lads sussed that when the team bus got to the train station, Arsene would get off first and walk down the platform. Players would hang back, buy some chocolate bars in the shop and, on the train, sit facing the back of his head. That way, you could get out your chocolate, and if you saw Arsene getting up, you’d drop it. It’s all kids’ stuff, isn’t it? We were grown men!
People talk about the diet change but, to me, his success was about his training methods – I loved his sessions – and the way he wanted to play football. I’d never missed a lot of matches, so I didn’t see the need to change my diet massively. I used to go home and eat anything!
Was your winner at Stamford Bridge in 1997 the best goal of your career? Stuart Vernon, Watford A lot of people think so. I’d probably say it was the one against Wimbledon, the week before Anfield in ’89, with my right foot. I never used my right foot – I can’t even stand on it properly – but it went like a rocket straight in the top corner. The goal at Stamford Bridge was part of the Double-winning season and late in the game, so people remember it. They don’t have many goals to talk about, as I only got one a season!
In your 10 to 15 years there, what was the best Arsenal team you played in? Andy Clare, Oxford The 1998 team, as we could play some incredible football but mix it up if it got tough. Technically it was the best team, from 1 to 11. I looked at that team and thought, ‘We can achieve something very special here’. In December we had a couple of games in hand but were 12 points behind, and some bookies paid out on Man United. But we went on an amazing run. The match that turned it in our favour was the 1-0 victory at Old Trafford, when Marc Overmars scored.
“ARSENAL WEN RH EO THN EO BL EE TTR EE RB TEAM IN MANCHESTERR UE NH ITT EE DB ’SO TREBLE-WINNING YEARY . WM EI SE HH OD UN LDA HAVE WON ONE OF THOSI E! TE RG ON PI HS IE ET SI
Should Arsenal have done the Double in 1999, when United won the Treble? Neil Mansfield, Sussex Possibly – we were the better team! They were minute differences, though. Dennis Bergkamp missed the penalty in the FA Cup semi-final replay, then in the penultimate league game I picked up an injury and we lost against Leeds. Win that one, and we’d have just had to beat Aston Villa at home to win the title. There wasn’t much between the teams in United’s Treble-winning season – we should have won one of those trophies.
Who was the toughest player to face in training at Arsenal? Jason Tully, Hayes Dennis Bergkamp was sensational but dirty as well – a lot dirtier than people thought! I got a couple of elbows in the face from him in training after someone annoyed him; I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Marc Overmars was the best winger I played with. One game in, I thought, ‘This is going to work well’.
Why did you bottle it against Di Canio? Sean Parry, via Twitter [Laughs] I’ve no idea why I got involved – it wasn’t anything to do with me. I was giving him a bit of lip after he pushed the referee; I think I was saying, ‘Hurry up and get off, have a shower’ – something like that. He was ranting away in Italian, then he stopped. I thought, ‘I’ve pushed it too far now, he’s going to smack me here’ – and rightly so. I’m not sure how I would have reacted if he had hit me. I thought, ‘I’m not big enough to take a smack – I’ve got to get out of the way’. I moved back, thinking he was going to hit me, then he didn’t. I laugh to myself when I watch it back! [FFT: What would have happened if you’d actually fought?] He’d probably say he would have won! I really don’t know. I’m not aggressive except when I play football...
You became Di Canio’s team-mate at West Ham later – what was that like? Ray Chaplin, via Instagram I thought it would be quite interesting, particularly when the players put me in the spot right next to him in the dressing room! But that defused it straight away: I was getting changed and he came up, tapped me on the shoulder and gave me a big hug. I got on very well with him at West Ham. Harry Redknapp never put us on opposite teams in training. But Paolo is crackers anyway – if he wasn’t happy with training, he’d just clear off. I played against him in a legends game once and said we should re-enact that Sheffield Wednesday incident. He was like, “Yeah, yeah! Referee as well?” I said that’d be tricky! But I went in for a challenge on him and we squared up and recreated what happened – it worked pretty well! How did you feel when Wenger signed Sylvinho in 1999? Did you know it was the end of your time at Arsenal? Jake Gable, via Instagram I fought it for a while. Arsene told me he was going to change things, but he did it in a way that you just couldn’t fall out with him. It was hard to leave, because I’d wanted to retire at Arsenal, but I still had something left to give elsewhere.
Having won so much in a legendary Arsenal defence, are you miffed that you received only two England caps? Stuart Steelyard, via Facebook Not really. I made two appearances as a substitute against Italy and Germany, two of the very best. I’d have liked to start a match, though, just to say, ‘This is what I can do – if I’m good enough, I’ll get a chance, but if you don’t think I am, that’s fine’. I never really felt part of England’s squad with the managers there. When you win the league with Arsenal, but still don’t get in the [England] squad, you get a feeling you’re never going to get in. In the end, I didn’t even look at the squads. I got called up again by Howard Wilkinson in 1999. He’d told Arsene Wenger he wanted to start the whole Arsenal back five, then changed his mind when I arrived as Graeme Le Saux was already in the squad and he felt that would be disrespectful. It would have been nice to feature in that game.
Did you ever meet Robert Mugabe and grill him on politics, as you once told FFT you wanted to do? Terry Morton, Enfield No, I didn’t. I met Nelson Mandela when he was released. Arsenal had travelled to South Africa and he was introduced to us before one of the matches. It was just after he had come out of prison, so that was an incredible moment.
You told FFT readers your PIN once, in Ask A Silly Question. Is it still 7772? Drew Ferguson, Hemel Hempstead Er, yes! Do you want the credit card as well? [Laughs] It wasn’t actually my PIN number – and if it was, I would change it after this interview! But I can assure you: that wasn’t the real number at the time. To everyone who nicked my credit card and has been repeatedly tapping in that number, sadly you’re not going to get anything out of it!
Do you still want a coaching career? Junior Leoes, via Facebook Coaching wasn’t really for me. To begin with, I thought if I could be a defensive coach I would go and do that. I went to Blackburn with Paul Ince, but I realised it wasn’t exactly how I perceived it was going to work out. You need to spend a lot of time focusing on defensive aspects, and at Blackburn I didn’t think we’d do enough work on the defensive side of things for it to be what I wanted long term. It was a little frustrating for me, although I understood the time a manager gets with his team is pretty limited. Also, maybe it just wasn’t what I was looking to do. I still enjoy doing media work, but I don’t do masses of it these days and most of it is at Arsenal. I’m 55 now and I do need to work, but I’m fortunate that I invested my money quite wisely and I don’t have to work every single day – I’m in a lucky position.
Who was the best right-winger you ever came up against? Chris Want, via Facebook Brian Mcclair. [Chuckles] No – Luis Figo. I was up against him when we played Barcelona in the Champions League in 1999, and let’s just say he played very well against me. I faced him again in a legends game at the Bernabeu last year, in front of 68,000 fans. I thought we’d take it easy and have a nice little chat, then the first time he got the ball he did all these stepovers and tried to run at me. The crowd were roaring him on, so I was thinking, ‘Well, if you think that’s fun, mate, you’re going to have to take one’. They gave the ball to him again and I shoulder-barged him when he wasn’t watching, knocking him off the pitch. I wasn’t just going to let the crowd drool over him!