One-on-one: Joe Cole talks Razor Ruddock, the Eurostar and swimming with sharks
Capello stopped me swimming with sharks. If I was the manager, I’d say, ‘Do what you want – just don’t get drunk or arrested!’”
It’s a normal Tuesday morning inside the central London offices of 10Ten Talent – until Fourfourtwo turn up.
Just a few hundred yards from Marble Arch, agents are making their morning phone calls to check in on players, and everything is tranquil. But minutes later, star client Joe Cole has arrived and he’s stood in the centre of the office, lobbing playing cards everywhere.
Cole was described as a magician with a football during his playing days. On this occasion, he’s playing along with FFT’S request to be another kind of conjuror, card tricks and all.
The 37-year-old brought his career on the pitch to an end in November, after three seasons in the United States with the Tampa Bay Rowdies, and now he’s attempting to play his cards right while forging a new career in coaching.
When we spoke a year ago, Cole had revealed his ambition to be a manager, and his dream to one day become boss of Chelsea, West Ham or even England. Now he’s on the first rung of the ladder after taking a coaching role in Chelsea’s academy, and he’s loving every second.
“I’m throwing myself into it,” he tells FFT in his cockney chirp. “It’s a new job, an apprenticeship. I’ll make mistakes, but it’s about learning and developing.”
Fortunately, Cole always learned fast as a player. In fact, he was one of the most exciting teenagers England has ever produced. And now he’s answering your questions on a career rarely spent out of the spotlight...
What went through your head when you were the most hyped teenager in the country? Joe Vernon, Nottingham I’ve got nothing to compare it with – it was just my life. They were good times. Every time I stepped onto a pitch there was a lot of expectation and pressure, but that develops you.
I didn’t play competitively until the under-10s. I’d only played playground football. I had a passion for it – I loved it. Like all kids, I used to just enjoy the beauty of the game. What can I do with a ball? Can I bend it around that tree? Can I hit that lamp post? Can I keep the ball up all the way to the shops and then back again? And it was quite a long way to the shops! But I used to do loads of little games like that – that was my first introduction to football. When you struck that shot against Sweden at the 2006 World Cup, did you know it was going in? Fin Palfreyman, via Instagram I knew it had a chance. The goalie was a giant, so how it crept in, I don’t know. But I knew that I’d caught it sweet. You know when you strike a ball well – it’s just lovely. It’s like hitting a ball in golf: you think, ‘Oh, that one has a chance’.
Is it true that Spurs tried to sign you after you left Chelsea? Mark Grainger, via Facebook They did, and staying in London would have been the logical thing to do. Harry Redknapp was the manager there, too, so it was a very easy fit. But I just didn’t feel it was right, being a West Ham and Chelsea player and then going to play for Tottenham. It would have tarnished everything I did at Chelsea.
When you went to Liverpool, Steven Gerrard said anything Lionel Messi could do, you could do just as well, if not better. Was he right? Jonah Taylor, via Instagram It was brilliant that Stevie thought that. Obviously, Messi is the greatest player who has ever lived, so if someone puts you in the same bracket as him, that’s great. But yeah, maybe I’d had a good training session, I don’t know! [Laughs]
How hard was the Croatia defeat with England missing out on Euro 2008? Susan Clark, Leeds Alongside relegation at West Ham, that was a tough one to take. We never got the goalkeeper situation right during the whole campaign. All of our goalies were out of form and it culminated with Scott Carson probably being a bit young for a game of that magnitude. It just didn’t work – I felt really low after that night at Wembley.
How did Neil Ruddock react whenever you did your skills against him in training? Sean Young, Ilford Do you know what? Razor never kicked me in training. What a lovely fella, people don’t realise that. He could definitely be uncompromising if you were up against him in a game, but I knew quite a lot of senior professionals who liked to leave
a foot in and hurt you in training, and Razor certainly wasn’t one of them. He probably wanted to – in fact, I’m sure he wanted to! – but he’s not that type of player. I won’t name any names, but senior players who kick young players just to teach them a lesson? I think it’s disgraceful. I don’t like that, and it was a bugbear for me.
What was it like to be the West Ham captain when you were 21? Emily Frantzen, Grays It was ‘needs must’. Both the captain and vice-captain were injured, so Glenn Roeder looked around the group. Not to blow my own trumpet, but I think I was the only one performing at their best at the time – I was taking responsibility on the pitch anyway, always getting on the ball. Playing in a relegation battle needs a different kind of character, especially at a club like West Ham, because their expectations and the reality are very far apart. Glenn probably thought I was his only option – he’d have liked to give it to a senior player, but none were stepping up, so he had to give it to a 21-year-old.
Did anyone at West Ham believe the team were ‘too good to go down’ in 2002-03, as many pundits did? Stephen Houghton, Yeading For a certain part of the season, I felt there was some complacency from the people running the club. They were such good people, but mistakes were made in terms of bringing in the right players. We went into the season light: probably 13 players were capable of performing in the Premier League. Others were the wrong types of players for the club. We had two months when we had to play Ian Pearce upfront. Ian was a very good Premier League defender and he did an admirable job for us up top, but it wasn’t his position – we needed someone. We had Jermain Defoe, who was 19 at the time, and Paolo Di Canio, who was 33 or 34. Freddie Kanoute was the senior striker, but he got injured. We needed more support in attack, and it was a bit light in defence.
Relegation was the lowest point of my career – you feel a real emptiness, like you let people down. We tried our best, but collectively it wasn’t good enough. We can bang on now about getting 42 points, the most ever to get relegated, but it hit me for six. It hurt massively.
Did you know that you’d be leaving West Ham when they got relegated? Francis Klein, Tunbridge Wells Leaving wasn’t at the front of my mind during that moment, but the club was in a bad way financially and I was the most sellable asset, so I had a feeling it was going to happen. West Ham needed the money and I wanted to get picked for England, so I had to carry on playing in the Premier League.
Was it intimidating, being described as a replacement for Gianfranco Zola when you joined Chelsea? Francesco Moro, Cagliari I had experience of expectations, which helped me. Zola was a striker and I was playing left midfield – the comparison was just because we were diminutive and liked to dribble. When I went there, I was actually the lowest-profile signing, because they were also signing Adrian Mutu, Hernan Crespo, Juan Sebastian Veron – they were bringing in everyone. I was an afterthought, really.
Carlo Ancelotti or Jose Mourinho? Rory Cameron, via Instagram It’s a tough one... it’s horses for courses. I’m going to say Jose, but only just, as they were both fantastic managers – it’s just that I spent three and a half years working under Mourinho and only one year with Ancelotti. How was your relationship with Jose? Andrew Turton, Battersea We had a standard footballer-manager relationship – it was normal. You don’t need to have a relationship with your manager. We talked sometimes. I just wanted to play football and he did his thing. He picked me, he didn’t pick me, you like him, you don’t... He had a job to do. We had words at times, but I think the game now needs a bit more of that. Managers need to have a row with their players. The way the world is now, we don’t even talk any more – we just text all the time. Having to have an actual conversation with a manager probably scares the living daylights out of some young footballers. I was in Jose’s office
quite a lot, asking questions. Any time I had a grievance, his door was always open. We’d have some banter, too. It was a completely normal relationship.
How did it feel when Pele [below] said you had “the skills of a Brazilian”? Joao Silva, Rio de Janeiro [Smiles] That was great! He came to see a game. I would have loved to have met him – he had to shoot off – but what he said was a great honour. I can’t believe these people know me. Diego Maradona once came to watch training at Chelsea and he knew my name – that blew my mind! The fact that Pele even knew who I was, and thought I was a good player, was fantastic to hear.
Mourinho was sometimes quite harsh on you. Did it get the best out of you? Ronnie Grant, Bermondsey It’s a bit like a jockey riding a horse: they have a feel for when it needs a whip to go faster, and when it isn’t right to do it. That’s good management. Some horses don’t like being whipped; other horses just need a wake-up.
There were a few times when he was tough on me. He took me and Shauny [Wright-phillips] off at Fulham after 25 minutes in 2006, which I thought was wrong, and we ended up losing anyway, so on that occasion it didn’t seem to work. But everything is calculated – he doesn’t do things on a whim. I scored the winner against Liverpool and got a public message [of criticism], which was a bit strange, but looking back now, it was the right time. I always had the attitude of ‘I’ll show you’. Some players might skulk around, but I was always determined to show Jose that I could do what he wanted.
Recently, after years of secrecy from everyone involved, Mourinho finally admitted that he did hide in a laundry basket to avoid discovery when he was flouting a UEFA touchline ban. What did Chelsea players think at the time? Ian Madeley, Oxshott I thought it was hilarious! [Laughs] It’s been a bit of a thing for years, not being able to talk about it – all very cloak and dagger – but he’s spoken about it now. I found it hilarious at the time, watching him have a right panic. It was brilliant!
At West Ham, you were one of the most exciting players to watch, but Mourinho appeared to change your game to suit his plan. Did he knock the creativity out of you a little? Ricardo Tomatrigo, via Facebook Maybe a little bit. But as you get older, you play more maturely. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo in the last five years compared to his first five: he’s a different type of player. Then you see other players who don’t develop maturity – someone like Adel Taarabt, who was probably similar to me in his younger days but didn’t seem to mature as a footballer, hence why I don’t know where he is now. You’ve got to mature as a player.
Is it true that Manchester United tried to sign you for £10 million when you were 16 years old? Alison Udal, Cheadle I don’t know about the price, but Man United tried to sign me, yes. They tried to take me up there, but I chose West Ham because I was most comfortable there as a kid. My friends played there, we had a really good team, we won the FA Youth Cup and I just felt comfortable. I followed my gut feeling.
In 2006 you were deployed on the left of a famous midfield featuring David Beckham, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. With so many great players, why did England underachieve? Jake Gable, via Instagram You’re in a bubble at the World Cup and I really felt like we were going to win that one. We got it wrong tactically, and there were injuries too. We had Wayne Rooney coming back from his metatarsal; Michael Owen wasn’t right and did his knee in the Sweden match; Theo Walcott was 17 and a bit too young to come on and make an impact; and we left Jermain Defoe at home. I was subbed straight after Rooney’s red card against Portugal in the quarter-final, and that was really frustrating because I felt I was coming into the game and starting to get at the right-back. My England career could be frustrating sometimes.
Were you due to take a penalty in the 2008 Champions League Final against Manchester United, if Nicolas Anelka hadn’t replaced you in extra time? Rebecca Woods, Epsom Yes, but Anelka was coming on because he was an experienced penalty-taker. I hadn’t taken a penalty in my career up to then, even in shootouts, because as a winger you always get taken off – you don’t play 120 minutes. But I would’ve taken one, as you can’t be an attacking player and not put your hand up.
I had a nightmare with shootouts – I lost every one my teams were involved in. If I’d won half of them, I could have been sitting here with a World Cup and two Champions League titles.
Having come so close to winning the Champions League, how did you feel when Chelsea won it after you’d left? Johnny Davis, Worcester It was such a bittersweet thing. I was so happy for all my friends and for the club, but part of me still wished I could have
“IF I’D LIVED U PH TO O TN HO EL HE YR PE EB , ENGLAND WOULD H AI VE EH WE OB NO THREE WORLD CUPS – IT WAS BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION”
been there. It’s a natural emotion. I was involved in four or five semi-finals and a final – that was frustrating. We were definitely one of Europe’s top sides and should have won it while I was there, but there were penalty shootouts, the ghost goal, and in the first year we got it wrong tactically against Monaco. Apart from in 2006-07, when Liverpool were better than us over two legs, we were the better side every time we went out.
Rio Ferdinand has said that you were terrified of touching a football in the dressing room before a match. Why?! Kyle Norris, Milton Keynes That was just a spell – it’s been blown out of proportion! [Laughs] It was a little superstition for maybe a season: if I did touch it I’d be annoyed, but people used to throw it at me anyway! These are just the strange things you do. I know one player – I’m not telling you his name! – who would always have five potatoes in his pre-match meal. If he was hungry, he’d spend time looking for the bigger ones – probably because he had a good game once after he’d had five potatoes.
Looking at West Ham in 1999-2000, if Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard and all of those players had stayed, would the club have been real contenders to win the league? Jon Stockton, via Instagram Yeah, you would think so, wouldn’t you? Logic would suggest that with all those players developing, we would have had a really good team in around 2003 or 2004. We would have been a real force.
Did Fabio Capello really prevent you and John Terry from swimming with sharks during the 2010 World Cup? Zara Parsons, Farnborough Yeah! He said, “All right, lads, have a day off and do what you want.” We were in Cape Town and wanted to go in a cage with some great white sharks, as there wasn’t much for us to do in the hotel – there was golf, but I didn’t play a lot of golf at that time, and you want to live right. When we heard about the sharks, I thought, ‘That’s a good idea – let’s do that’. But they didn’t let us do it. If I was a manager, I would have let my players do that. If you give them a day off, let them do what they want – just don’t go out drinking or get arrested. [FFT: Maybe he was worried about you coming back with a leg missing?] Yeah, but we would have been secure in the cage! [Laughs]
You damaged your ACL in an FA Cup tie at Southend. Was that the turning point of your career? Brian Nolan, Basildon Definitely. After that, my body wouldn’t allow me to regularly do the things I’d done before. But it inspired my coaching career, because I felt that if I had been managed better after that, I could have produced more in the second half of my career. I’ve learned from that and I’m going to take it into my coaching career.
How did it feel to leave Chelsea, and what was your favourite moment at the club? I loved the goal against Man United to win us the league in 2006! Jamie, via Facebook That was my favourite moment: scoring a really good goal to secure the title and sharing that special day with my family.
I was gutted to leave. I didn’t think it at the time, but my days as a top-level player – being able to play for a team who could compete regularly for titles – were probably gone because of my injury. The club offered me a contract for a player they didn’t see as a starter. It was never about the money – it was where the club saw me, and I wanted to be seen as a starter. Looking back, the club were right. I wasn’t the player I’d been before. But I couldn’t accept it at the time, because I still thought that it was going to come back.
Financially, the contract they offered was great, just as the contract Liverpool offered me was great, but my instincts to move on were right. I wouldn’t have wanted to sign a long-term contract at Chelsea and then filter away from the
club. People remember me fondly there and I’m very glad of that – all of my bad times were away from there.
What do you think went so wrong for you at Liverpool, and what would you have done differently? Reds Hope Weekly, via Facebook I’d have been much fitter. If managers had played me a bit more, I’d have had a run in the team. There was no doubt in my mind that I was good enough to play in that side, but I needed a bit of help; a bit of ‘Go on, lad, get yourself in and get yourself going again’. It didn’t transpire like that, though.
You’ve previously said that signing for Liverpool was a mistake because you didn’t feel a connection with the club – what did you mean by that? Dean Manley, via Instagram I joined Liverpool for the owners, then new owners took over and the noises were that they wanted me off the wage bill. The noises were coming through my agent that they wanted me out. When you sign for a new club and five minutes later they want you out, you’re facing an uphill battle straight away. You’re just being thrown a few scraps off the bench: 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there, plus the odd League Cup match...
I always did my best at Liverpool, and personally I think that if you look at the games I played in, I didn’t do anything wrong – I just didn’t play enough. Then my body was starting to break down, so I’d have four weeks off here, six weeks off there, then I’d get fit, and it was just a spiral. If I had been managed better, I could have done better.
Does the media hype of young players hinder their development? You were called the next Paul Gascoigne! Matt Walker, via Facebook I loved the Gazza comparison. He was one of my heroes and we were probably similar in the way we played. You mimic your heroes and I wanted to be like him.
Some people thrive on the hype, but for others it’s too much. I dealt with it by having really close-knit friends and family who all kept me grounded and protected me whenever things weren’t going as well. I was lucky to have that. Some players don’t, and they’ll go off the rails. There’s always a wonderkid – there were wonderkids before me and wonderkids after me. Some have great careers and some have no direction and end up working in a shop. The support network of people around you is crucial.
Did you really get the Eurostar to Lille every day? James Wright, Gillingham No! [Laughs] Maybe once a week, as Lille was very easy to get to. It’s only an hour on the Eurostar, so I could pop home for the evening and go home for dinner, or when we had a day off. That suited me at the time, because I’d just had my first daughter.
I had a great time playing for Lille. I was really happy I did that – I went with my gut feeling and thoroughly enjoyed it all. When I was on the way to Lille, on deadline day, Aston Villa were on the phone trying to tempt me back to England – I ended up playing for Villa three years later.
Who was the best player you played with during your career? Sean O’kane, via Instagram Eden Hazard at Lille, as he’s got all the tools in the bag and I think there’s still another level for him to go up. [FFT: He has claimed you told him to join Chelsea every day...] Maybe not every single day, but most days, yeah! [Laughs] I thought it was the right move for him, as I just can’t imagine him living in Manchester. He’s a real family guy, so the Eurostar means London is close to both Lille and Brussels. Chelsea were the champions of Europe and I felt they were the right fit for a player of his quality.
Who did you most enjoy playing for? Arthur Cornell, via Instagram It’s a really difficult one, but I’m going to have to say Chelsea. West Ham will always have a special place in my heart, but when you’re winning trophies... as a kid, that’s what you dream of doing. Playing for Chelsea was really special.
What convinced you to rejoin Chelsea as one of their academy coaches at the end of last year? cfcedits, via Instagram They offered me a job! It’s a good place to learn, I feel very comfortable there and they’ve been great with me ever since I left in 2010. The chairman, Bruce Buck, always stayed in touch, and they wanted me back in the building. Of all my former teams, they were the only one to show any interest in taking me back in. In the same way as when I signed for West Ham as a kid, I just felt like this was the right place to start.
Looking back, are you satisfied with how your playing career panned out? Gandes Krisantyo, via Instagram Most of the time I’m satisfied with my career, then I’ll have times when I think, ‘I wish I’d done that; I wish I’d scored in the Champions League final and we would have bloody won; I wish we’d got to the World Cup final’. But I snap out of it. That’s completely normal; completely human. [FFT: Do you find it frustrating when people say that you didn’t live up to your potential?] No. You can’t affect what people think. If I had lived up to my hype, then God knows what type of player I would have been – England would have won three World Cups and I would have won the Champions League every year, because the hype got blown out of all proportion. Potential means nothing; it’s all about what you do on the pitch.
I’ve achieved quite a lot, but we’re all greedy and I would like to have done more. Sometimes there’s a little wonder of what might have been, if we’d won a couple of Champions Leagues. We all chase these pots and pans, although it wouldn’t have made me any happier in this moment right now.