CLAUDE MAKELELE
YOUR questions answered
He landed top- flight titles at Nantes, Real Madrid and Chelsea, hoisted the Champions League trophy and played in four major tournaments with France – but Claude Makelele’s greatest accolade is more lasting than all of those achievements.
More than 17 years after he swapped the Bernabeu for Stamford Bridge and perfected the art of unselfish midfield destroying, Makelele still has a position named after him: football’s universal benchmark for grafters at the coalface.
However, it wasn’t the Frenchman, understated as ever, who trumpeted his value to the world. Peers regularly pointed in his direction when asked to reveal their indispensable team- mates. Famously, Zinedine Zidane responded to Real Madrid’s recruitment of David Beckham in 2003 – tied to Makelele’s exit that summer – with the words, “Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you’re losing the entire engine?”
These days, a 47- year- old Makelele is still helping others but in his position as a technical mentor for Chelsea’s academy players. He’s taken up several coaching roles around Europe since hanging up his boots back in 2011. “All my life I’ve been in football, so I want to give back my experience,” Makelele tells Fourfourtwo over a coffee in leafy Cobham, near Chelsea’s training base. It’s all a very long way from Kinshasa, where he once hoped to follow in his footballing father’s footsteps. A job well done, you might say…
Which players did you admire most when you were growing up? Did you take anything from them? Donal J O’driscoll, via Facebook
It wasn’t like I was in awe of particular players, but when I started playing with my friends in the French streets, I saw Pele. He was probably a reference for everyone at that time. My father was a player, too: he played for the national team of Zaire [ now the Democratic Republic of the Congo] and a number of Belgian sides, but I never got to see him play live. He fled the Mobutu [ Sese Seko] regime in Zaire and ended up as a refugee in Belgium, where he played in the second division for a few years. He then stopped playing and travelled to France, where he stayed to do some other work. It was that moment when I moved with my family from Kinshasa to the suburbs of Paris – I was about five years old.
Although he had played himself, my father didn’t really want me to become a footballer when I was growing up. He knew exactly what kind of sacrifices you have to make, and didn’t want me to go through that. But I pushed him, as I was desperate to play, and in the end there was no choice but to let me go for it. When I started getting close to becoming a professional, he offered me crucial insight into what it actually means to be a footballer.
I left the family home when I was 16 to play in the Brest academy. I’d often train with the first team players there, so I was able to develop among older people. I’d frequently be on the phone to my father, though, as I only went back home during the holidays. I spent roughly a year and a half there in all; unfortunately the club went bankrupt and I was free to go.
Having spent your formative years in northern France, how did you end up at Nantes? Loïc Lafaille, Carquefou
Several professional teams wanted to sign me after I left Brest. Clubs such as Monaco, Montpellier and Auxerre were interested, but my dad advised me to join Nantes because they had one of the best academies in Europe. He went to have a look at the facilities, and felt they would offer the best possibility to develop. Nantes had a good reputation when it came to the technical side of the game, like their playing philosophy of one and two- touch football inspired by former manager Jose Arribas in the 1960s and ’ 70s.
There were a lot of people connected to other teams who were pushing my father, and even offering him plenty of money in order to secure my signature. But he always focused on the gradual path where my development would be important, and where I would enjoy my football the most. I wasn’t focused on earning loads of money or any kind of celebrity status. I was just dreaming about becoming a professional player. My adaptation was pretty quick, and it felt like I’d been with Nantes for years [ left]. It surprised people, as suddenly I was lining up alongside players like Jorge Burruchaga, Christian Karembeu and Japhet N’doram.
CLUBS ( PLAYER) 1991– 97 Nantes 1997– 98 Marseille 1998– 2000 Celta Vigo 2000– 03 Real Madrid 2003– 08 Chelsea 2008– 11 PSG
COUNTRY 1995– 2008 France
CLUBS ( MANAGER) 2014 Bastia 2017- 19 Eupen
Just how good was that Nantes side? You won the league title in 1994- 95, then reached the Champions League semi- finals the following season... Michel Blanc, Tours
We had a very good team and played good, proper football. We deserved to win the league. Manager Jean- Claude Suaudeau was the key to our success that season. He took many players out of the academy – there was no money to buy others. That was also a problem for Nantes, because they couldn’t keep all of their best players and had to sell some. They needed the money. But my development went well and I evolved as a player there.
I played further forward when I was young, and around my 17th birthday I began playing in behind the striker – a bit like my dad, who was a playmaker. I played as a winger when I first broke into Nantes’ side, although sometimes I’d drop into central midfield as well.
How did you end up at Marseille in 1997 – and for only one year before moving to Spain? Alfred Sardou, Marseille
Nantes had started to sell their better players, like Karembeu, Patrice Loko, Nicolas Ouedec and Reynald Pedros. I felt I wasn’t progressing any more, but the manager didn’t want to let me go. Around that time, Real Zaragoza’s manager Victor Fernandez – who had won the European Cup Winners’ Cup final against Arsenal [ in 1995] – came in for me. But I didn’t want to go there then; my dream was to move to Italy, Europe’s best competition at the time. That didn’t happen, so when Marseille came calling, I was allowed to leave.
I signed for four years, but it didn’t go well as the coach [ Rolland Courbis] made me play at right- back, among other positions. I wasn’t happy about that, as it wasn’t my football. I didn’t enjoy it, and I didn’t make the French squad for the 1998 World Cup. At the end of the season, I said I wanted to leave. I had to push for it, but I got my transfer – to Celta Vigo in Spain, where Fernandez had become the manager.
What was it like to play in that Celta Vigo team, which pulled off several terrific results against bigger clubs? James Dixon, London
I enjoyed it a lot at Celta actually – we had a very strong team. We played the best football in Spain, I’m telling you. We beat Real Madrid so many times – 5- 1 in one game. We had some great nights in the UEFA Cup, too, beating sides like Liverpool, Aston Villa, Benfica and Juventus. I scored in two of those games, including a first- minute goal against Juve when we beat them 4- 0.
I was playing like a central midfielder then, as we already had really good attacking players, and I started to like my new position. I realised that I’d be involved in the game even more, and from that position you can manage the team – you’re always around the ball. I was playing with Mazinho, who had won the World Cup with Brazil [ in 1994]. I learned a lot, and would often stay after training to practise with him. He taught me exactly how to position myself as a midfielder, and made me improve every day. During matches we would switch between defensive and offensive duties in midfield, although
I usually did more of the attacking as I was much younger! [ Laughs] I had to run up and down the pitch all the time.
How did your transfer to Real Madrid come about in 2000? Your agent later revealed he faked a police report to make it happen, claiming Celta fans had attacked your car – is that true?! Rob Carey, Dorset
That was said to make his book more interesting – you always need spice in a book. [ Laughs] The way it happened was different. After my first season at Celta, many clubs came in for me, but the president [ Horacio Gomez Araujo] didn’t want to sell. After the second season, it was the same. I eventually agreed to sign for Valencia and was determined to go there, but Araujo still didn’t want to sell me. I had to push for it again. Finally, my father arrived to negotiate, and he indicated there were several teams interested in me who could pay Celta a lot of money. The conversation took an unexpected twist, though, when Araujo said that he wanted me to join Real Madrid. My father was like, “Why didn’t you tell us before? Madrid are the best team in the world!” I needed to wait, however, as Real were holding their presidential
election between Florentino Perez and Lorenzo Sanz at the time. I explained to Valencia’s president that Celta were selling me to Real, and he understood. In the meantime, I spoke to Sanz and we reached an agreement. Sanz then lost the election, but manager Vicente del Bosque told Perez that he wanted me as well. So, at long last, I completed my move to Madrid.
How did you find life at the Bernabeu as a Galactico? Paavan Mohindru, via Instagram
The moment you join, you know that you’re at a different kind of club. They give you big books about their history. When you look at them, straight away you realise it’s about winning trophies. That’s something printed in your mind. When you’re not playing well you have a difficult time, because you’re under constant scrutiny from the press. They do all kinds of comparisons and come up with conclusions like, ‘ This player is not for Madrid’. Every day it’s like that.
You don’t really live in freedom; you become the property of Real Madrid and its fans. On pre- season tours, such as in Thailand, the excitement spread like wildfire everywhere we travelled: it was like being at Disneyland. [ Laughs] In Madrid, I learned that I couldn’t go to certain places or do shopping – that was practically impossible. Whenever you went outside your house at night, there was always a chance of coming across paparazzi. It’s a different life.
The team was called the Galacticos, but it was just a name. Playing for Real Madrid was the greatest reference you could have in football, though. When your performance was good, the fans put you in the sky. But it could be the other way, too.
Did you feel much pressure on the pitch, at a club with so many stars? Davinder Malhi, Sheffield
I initially faced a lot of pressure. I was playing in Fernando Redondo’s position and he was like a god to the Real fans – he’d left the club against his will that summer. In my first month there, the whole stadium booed when I touched the ball. It was very difficult. My father emphasised that it was imperative to continue playing my game, regardless of what was happening around me. He said, “The more you play, the more the fans will adapt to you. Once the team is winning, they will forget.” And that’s what happened. Later, they started to love me, as I was doing my job and we had some success. In my first season we won the league, which they hadn’t done for a few years, and in my second we won the Champions League.
What was it like to be the glue which kept that side together? How much did you actually feel valued, when team- mates were paid much more? @ spursdab, via Twitter
I honestly felt a lot of recognition and appreciation from my team- mates and my coach [ Del Bosque]. A good coach sees your exact value to the team; he knew my position and that I was key for balance. At Madrid I began to focus on the defensive midfielder’s role, as I rarely needed to venture over halfway when we had some of the world’s best attacking players on the pitch. I knew that we could score loads of goals with players like Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, Raul and Luis Figo, so why would I ever need to go upfield? [ Laughs] My duty was just to try to make it easy for them. In the beginning, I even played at the back occasionally alongside Fernando Hierro, with whom I established a very good connection. However, after that my game was centred on the second line in front of the defence.
There have been stories of the wage differences between me and some of the other guys, but I never compared myself to anyone. I wasn’t preoccupied with it. I never insisted in negotiations, ‘ I want this because he’s getting that’. I concentrated on myself all the time.
Ronaldo was pretty good, wasn’t he? Zak Burton, Hemel Hempstead
He could see things on the pitch before anyone else did. Zidane was the same: they acted where other players need more time. You feel freedom, playing alongside talent like that. We linked up well, as I’d already played as a forward and a winger – if there was no passing option, I could dribble with the ball, too. I wasn’t just doing the defensive work.
We had outstanding players, but also an excellent manager in Del Bosque. He made the difference. There were 11 players on the pitch, but also 11 on the bench – all of them big internationals. Del Bosque managed everyone well, as players knew exactly why they were or weren’t featuring. He didn’t talk much, but when he did we listened.
What happened in the summer of 2003, when you left Real Madrid? Frank Hayman, via Instagram
After my third year there, the board of directors told me they were very happy with my performances, and mentioned that they would reward me by raising my wages a bit at the start of the new season. I was happy about that. I was at the best team in the world, so why would I want to go anywhere? Then we bought David Beckham, and when we returned from our overseas tour, I was told the rise wasn’t possible any more; I could only sign a contract extension on the same terms. When I reminded them of their previous offer, I was told I should be happy to play for Real, and that I – so to speak – should be happy to play for nothing. I felt like I was done and wanted to leave.
“REAL INITIALLY TOLD ME I’D RECEIVE A WAGE INCREASE, THEN THEY BOUGHT BECKHAM AND WITHDREW THE OFFER”
There were no offers for me at first, as no club believed I could leave Real. But when I started to push a little bit and the situation came to light, a lot of teams quickly came in. I told Madrid’s directors about the interest, but they claimed they hadn’t received anything. They probably thought I would accept the situation and not talk to any other clubs. When they realised the problem was very serious, though, they wanted to react – but it was too late. They even came back to me and offered the same salary that some of the star players in the squad were earning. But my mind was made up to get away.
What convinced you to join what was then a transitional Chelsea side that hadn’t yet won the Premier League? Lewis Eadie, via Instagram
I went to Chelsea because they came in first. After that, several other teams approached me, including Manchester United and Inter, who had tried to sign me before I moved to Real. Due to the way things were happening at Madrid, I told Chelsea, “If I go, I’ll come to you.” I gave them a promise. They went to great lengths to sign me, as I was 30 by then but they still paid a significant transfer fee [£ 16.8 million].
How did you find the first few years under Roman Abramovich’s rule at Chelsea? What changed at the club? Dominic Howard, Tunbridge Wells
What changed was that Abramovich attracted some world- class players to the club. That’s what the boss did very well because, before then, those kind of players would move to Manchester United or Arsenal. I first played under Claudio Ranieri, before Jose Mourinho replaced him a year later. I had a good relationship with both – I always had a good relationship with my managers throughout my career.
Do you think the Chelsea of 2004- 08 should be considered the best team never to win the Champions League? Is that among the biggest regrets of your career? Ese Agboaye, via Facebook
It’s not my biggest regret, because I’d already won the Champions League with Real Madrid. I don’t know whether that Chelsea side was the best team never to win it, but we did brilliantly in that competition. In my five seasons at Chelsea, we reached the semi- finals four times, including one final in 2008. Not many clubs manage that, and a lot of them spend billions trying to win it. Chelsea created that team very quickly and, as well as coming extremely close in the Champions League, we won all of the domestic honours in the space of a few years. Normally it takes time for a team to establish a spirit like we did. I remember us playing cards while we were together preparing for games, just to relax and have a laugh. It made for a good ambience within the squad. No club in the world wanted to play us in that period.
What went through your mind when Jose Mourinho suddenly sprung out of a laundry basket before the game against Bayern Munich in 2005? Did you know he was in there?! Dean Jex, Lowestoft
When I came into the dressing room, he was already there – I didn’t witness the laundry basket arriving in the room.
[ Laughs] When I saw him I was quite surprised, like, ‘ Uhhh?!’ The way he did it, no one from outside noticed. He was only there before the match to give us some advice and little things like that. When we came back in at half- time, he wasn’t there any more.
Despite not being an ever- present in the 2007- 08 league campaign, you played in every Champions League tie. How did it feel, going all the way to Moscow and then losing? Oliver Grant, Basingstoke
Obviously it was a big disappointment. When you get so close, the appetite is huge, especially as I wanted to win the Champions League to give that trophy to the boss [ Abramovich]. He gave us a lot, so you wanted to give something back to him. It was a shame to lose on penalties. I wasn’t too high on the list to take one. I was better at playing on the pitch – penalties weren’t my thing! [ FFT: Why did you leave Chelsea after losing that final?] I wanted to go back to France, to be close to my family. I’d lived away from home throughout my career. When the possibility arose to join Paris Saint- Germain, Abramovich helped me leave in a good way and let me go for nothing, because I was still on a running deal at Chelsea.
How does it feel to hear about ‘ the Makelele role’? Who coined it? Does that recognition mean a lot to you? Ben Marsden, via Instagram
I think reporters and TV commentators initially started saying it. It happened when I was playing at Chelsea during the latter years of my career. Of course, it’s a big honour, because every player would like to leave something behind in the game. I appreciated it – it made me believe that I did something good.
On two occasions in your career, you decided to come out of international retirement to play for France again. What happened exactly? Christophe Berger, London
The French team had some problems and were in danger of not qualifying for the 2006 World Cup. I was called up again [ by Raymond Domenech], along with Zidane and Lilian Thuram, as we were still playing at a high club level. But it wasn’t really a call; more an obligation – because I didn’t want to go back. I had an agreement with Chelsea that I would focus solely on them, but when the French squad was announced, I had to return. When we came back there were a few matches left, including an important game in Ireland. We managed to win that one
“MANCHESTER UNITED AND INTER CAME IN FOR ME, BUT CHELSEA PHONED FIRST AND I’D PROMISED THEM”
1- 0 thanks to a Thierry Henry goal, and topped our qualifying group in the end.
After the World Cup, where we got to the final, I decided to retire again, but then I was asked to help France qualify for Euro 2008. I agreed to stay and we did qualify for that Euros, although we were knocked out in the group stage after losing to Holland and Italy. Then I stopped for good.
How do you look back on your spell with Paris Saint- Germain? You joined the club pre- takeover, when they had almost been relegated the season before. How soon did things change? Charly Kay, via Instagram
I have very fond memories of my time in Paris. We managed to challenge the top sides, and started qualifying for the Europa League instead of battling to avoid the drop. The club enjoyed more stability. I played there for three years, and in that spell PSG made a number of standout signings, like Ludovic Giuly from Roma and Gregory Coupet from Atletico Madrid. I tried to help some of the young players in the team, such as Mamadou Sakho, develop, giving them belief that they could be great players who had a chance of joining big clubs in the future.
After I ended my playing career in 2011, I wanted to stay in football. It’s difficult to leave it behind you, and I wanted to give back my experience – all the positive things I’ve achieved in my career. When
I finished playing, I stayed at
PSG and worked alongside director of football Leonardo. But I’m not a guy for the office, and after a few months Leonardo proposed that I support new manager Carlo Ancelotti on the pitch – I knew the league, the players and the language. For me, it was also a good idea because I could gain some useful coaching experience. I assisted Carlo and Laurent Blanc for several seasons before eventually deciding to become a head coach myself.
How has your experience of coaching been so far? You had a baptism of fire at Bastia [ left] in 2014 – what went wrong there? Ruth Green, Toronto
When I arrived, we had a very small squad and no money to invest in players. So, we had to track down some free ones, and I was able to convince quite a few to join the club. I started to build the team, but that takes time. When you don’t get results, though, the club can’t wait – that’s the business you’re in. It doesn’t matter if you’re Zidane; it’s like this, and I accept that’s the job. I remember speaking to Ancelotti, and he told me that when he was starting out as a manager, it was difficult for him as well – he had to learn his way. It’s important that you don’t give up. After leaving Bastia, I took on a role for UEFA as a technical observer around Euro 2016. In that same period I also acted as a sporting director at Monaco, where one of the things I did was help persuade Kylian Mbappe to stay.
What do you like about coaching and which managers have inspired you? Jamal Taylor, Huddersfield
I like being a coach because so many players never believe in the potential they have. I find it really important to get that out. That’s what I love about it: developing and improving talented players. I feel a good connection with them because I’m direct – I tell them the truth and explain what they do or don’t do well. That’s something that I liked about Mourinho. He’s a winner and he tells you the truth – you can speak to him, and he’ll tell you what’s right and what’s wrong. That’s crucial. It depends on the players you have, of course, as some will be stronger than others. Occasionally, you’ve got to be careful in the way that you say things. You have to feel the moment and try to level with them.
What tempted you back to Chelsea in 2019, and what is your role with the club these days? Archie Atkinson, Reading
It was nice to return to Stamford Bridge with some other former team- mates like Frank Lampard and Petr Cech. I’m working as a technical mentor for the academy and loan players, which I find very interesting as I deal with a lot of different departments. You speak with the players about their performances on the pitch, and about their personal development off the pitch.
This position has given me some new experiences, which add nicely to the last few years where I’ve touched on a lot of different disciplines, like being in director roles. That gave me a better understanding of all the politics within football, which you don’t understand when you’re a player. Once you finish your career, football turns out to be so different. Those experiences make me much more of an all- round coach, too. I’m still focused on that side of things, because I love that job, but I need the time to wait for a good project. Right now, I’m developing well in my role at Chelsea, which is fulfilling.