billy Gibbons
His riffs evoke the juke-joint grooves of 40s blues and are as hot as the Texas desert, but ZZ Top’s Billy Gibbons is as cool as the chrome on a hot-rod Ford. We meet the brujo of Marshall tone to discuss modded SGs, boutique amps and hear how a forgotten
You and Lance Lopez are both Texas bluesmen. What are the hallmarks of that style? “Well, we could cite the usual list of suspects for inspiration that goes back to that sweet spot from ’49 to 1959. But the blues has a habit of growing back into popularity every 10 years; it changes slightly but that thread of bluesiness somehow manages to remain. Even by contemporary standards, if you listen to our buddy Dan Auerbach from The Black Keys, they call themselves a rock band. But you listen to his singing style and certainly the two of them together, they play pretty much in a bluesy fashion. Same with Royal Blood – you know those two guys?
“So, I wouldn’t call Supersonic Blues Machine traditionalists, but that thread does exist. Someone said, ‘Why do so many guitar players come from Texas?’ I can’t figure it out. I think there’s nothing else to do but play guitar. It’s like, you want to learn drums, go to Cuba. Guitar, Texas.”
Your sound is built on a foundation of Marshall tone. How did that originate? “The Jeff Beck Group came through Houston, Texas – and that was with Rod Stewart, Ronnie Wood on bass, Nicky Hopkins on organ – and they were using the Marshall 1968 Super Lead 100. Jeff was playing a Sunburst Les Paul and Ronnie Wood was playing a Fender Telecaster bass that was the reissue of the early Precision. But that Marshall sound was insane. We were just coming out of the Moving Sidewalks into ZZ Top and it happened that Jeff didn’t have transport to go from Houston, Texas to Dallas, Texas for the next night. So I said, ‘Well, I’ve got a truck, we can take your stuff up,’ so I was Jeff’s roadie for one night [laughs]. The gear manager. But in return I said, ‘Jeff I really like these amps,’ and he goes, ‘Oh, yeah. That’s from Jim Marshall. Would you like to get some?’
“He arranged for ZZ Top to get the first Marshall amps in the US. Here’s the photograph [Billy produces a picture of himself standing in front of a Marshall stack with a Firebird I]. Jim Marshall, before he passed away, was very upfront, and he said, ‘I don’t think I was doing anything that much different – we were taking the standard schematic right out of the 1936, 1933 RCA book.’ Fender did it, Marshall did it. But I believe that using British components did add something different. Which was one of those magic things that just happened.”
In our last issue we covered Clapton’s playing at the time of the ‘Beano’ album and Joe Bonamassa questioned whether he in fact used a Dallas Rangemaster – or if it was simply the amp running flat-out. What’s your view on that? “Of course, the word ‘Bluesbreaker’ came from that record, but the Marshall on the back of the sleeve was the 18-watt combo. Later, Marshall made the 45-watt combo and they named it the Bluesbreaker. But that was long after the 18-watt had been made. I got lucky and found an 18-watt with two 12-inch speakers. Most of the 18-watt versions were 210s – the less-common ones were 212s. In fact, the one that I’ve got runs on 220 volts and the speakers are Celestions made at Silverdale Road where the factory was located. It’s got two original Silverdale Road speakers and this thing sounds just like the ‘Beano’ sound.
“I actually went to the office of the company that publishes The Beano – the comic book – and they have racks of back issues going back. And the secretary she came back and she goes, ‘We don’t have that one – but we have it in our museum. We have one.’ And we said, ‘What would it take to borrow it for one hour?’ So, we took it down to a copy shop and we came back with a stack just of the cover page. And we returned it, of course, but I got one signed by Clapton. He saw it and said, ‘Ah, I’ll have this,’ and I said, ‘Don’t worry, I’ve got another one.’ [laughs]”
Quite a few boutique amp makers have been inspired by Plexi tone. Have you found any gems among the new generation of Plexi-style amps? “You raise an interesting point. The magnetic appeal of what Marshall created has stimulated the search [for a hot-rod Plexi-style sound] by a number of other companies. I don’t think anything will replace Marshall, but as far as favourite amps in that style go, Dave Friedman has the Pink Taco – which is a little 18-watt with master volume and effects loop. Two very interesting additions that have modernised the 18-watt and taken it into utility. As did Magnatone: they have a combo version of the Super 59 – I don’t know if they’re offering it officially yet – but I got Ted [Kornblum] to make a combo version of the head and cab. It was nice.
“The top five combo amps of that kind are, in my view, the 18-watt 212 Marshall from 1965 to 1966. Maybe 1967. Then we’d have a Magnatone Super 59 and Dave Friedman’s Pink Taco 18-watt. Then there’d be Mojave Ampworks. They’ve got an interesting line of anything you can imagine. And we’ve left out another sleeper – which was Selmer’s Zodiac 50.”
They used to be quite easy to find in classified ads a few years ago… “Try and find one now, though. There was another Selmer with less wattage, about 20 watts, but I think Peter Green may have played through a Zodiac at one time.”
Turning to Supersonic Blues Machine, we hear that a rap track that you adapted for the blues sparked off this whole glorious endeavour… “Well, Fabrizio and I had been working on a couple of projects – songwriting. At the time, ZZ Top was wrapping up the sessions that were released as La Futura. I was working as co-producer with Rick Rubin. He said, ‘Do you think we could use maybe one more song?’ So I said, ‘How many do you need for the release?’ and he said, ‘We need 10.’ So I said, ‘Well, we have 20.’ He said, ‘Let’s do one more.’ I said, ‘Okay.’
“By this time I was producing most of the sessions in Houston, Texas, so I left California, went to Houston and the engineer said, ‘Now what?’ and I said, ‘Well, we’re going to do one more song.’ He said, ‘Gee, you already have 20.’ I said, ‘Well… 21.’ So they said, ‘What do you have in mind?’ For some reason [I suggested] a song from 20 years earlier by some Houston rappers, Fat Pat and Lil’ Keke, that was called 25 Lighters, that was a pretty big hit. They said, ‘25 Lighters? That’s a rap song.’ And I said, ‘Yes.’ That was Joe Hardy, the engineer, thinking, ‘Gee, how are we going to go about this?’ Well, [writer and engineer] Gary Moon was in the lounge and through the door I said, ‘Hey, G, what are you playing on the computer?’ And he said, ‘Oh, I’m watching Lightnin’ Hopkins videos.’ I went in and looked at it and then this blues thing got in. I came back into the control room. I said, ‘Let’s go.’ I said, ‘We’re going to take 25 Lighters into blues lounge.’
“I mean, it was such an odd twist, but it sounded okay. It was ‘ZZ-approved’ because it had that bluesy element. I sent it to Rick and he called me up and said, ‘I love this thing. What does this mean?’ I said, ‘Look it up on the Google search for 25 Lighters and there’s a definition of what that means.’ I’ll leave the reader to go look it up. Anyway, the record company was very excited, but Fat Pat and Lil’ Keke had died in the meantime and what I had made was a derivative of their work, so it required approval – but no-one knew where to find the estate, so the song was in limbo.
“Now, this is interesting: around that time ZZ Top was approached by a whiskey company, Jeremiah Weed. They said, ‘We would like ZZ Top to help us promote our whiskey. We have heard about this song called 25 Lighters, which you now call I Gotsta Get Paid.’ I said, ‘Yes, but we’ve got a problem. We have not received permission to release it. However, I’m going back to California to meet Fabrizio Grossi. I’ll write a song for you that will make sense.’
“I got with Fabrizio and I said, ‘Man, I’ve got a problem. They want to use I Gotsta Get Paid, but it’s not released. But I have written this song called Running Whiskey,” and Fabrizio said, ‘What is that?’ and I said, ‘Well, I’ve got a hot rod car called the Whiskey Runner.’ He said, ‘What does that have to do with the song?’ so I said, ‘Well, back in the 1930s the Moonshiners would make the whiskey, they put it in the fast cars to be able to outrun the law.’ And he said, ‘I get it, I’m running whiskey – yes, okay.’
“We recorded Running Whiskey the same day we found the estate holders. The wife and the daughter heard our version of 25 Lighters and they said, ‘Oh yes, we like this. Good.’ So, then Fabrizio said, ‘What are we going to do? This Running Whiskey is a good song.’ I was sort of joking, but I said, ‘Well, you need to record nine more.’ And he said, ‘I’m working with a guitarist from Texas, Lance Lopez.’ And I said, ‘I know Lance. He’s one of my favourite guitar players. Put a band together,’ so they did.”