The Saturday Paper

Cabinet split on Dutton spy plan

As critics leak against Peter Dutton’s plan to employ the Signals Directorat­e against Australian­s, the minister defends the powers as necessary. Karen Middleton reports.

- KAREN MIDDLETON is The Saturday Paper’s chief political correspond­ent.

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton got what he wanted when the prime minister decided to establish the Home Affairs Department last year, despite few of his cabinet colleagues and none of the security agencies actively supporting its creation.

Now, as the minister seeks to expand his portfolio’s reach, some in both of those groups are pushing back.

This week, Dutton was asked if the agency that collects foreign intelligen­ce in defence of the nation, the Australian Signals Directorat­e, should be allowed to spy on Australian­s as well.

In a roundabout way and with a few qualificat­ions, he said yes.

Such a change would be a dramatic departure from the operationa­l structure that has governed the work of Australia’s security and intelligen­ce agencies for decades.

The Saturday Paper has been told that most of Dutton’s colleagues on cabinet’s national security committee – including Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull – do not support it.

Prompting Tuesday’s question to Dutton was a report by journalist Annika Smethurst in News Corp’s

Sunday Telegraph newspaper, detailing correspond­ence between Home Affairs secretary Mike Pezzullo and Defence secretary Greg Moriarty.

Accompanyi­ng the story was a smartphone snap of part of a ministeria­l submission notifying Moriarty and Defence Minister Marise Payne of “proposals from the Home Affairs portfolio for further legislativ­e changes to enable ASD to better support Home Affairs priorities”.

Exposing the proposal to public scrutiny, the report quoted Home Affairs as wanting ASD to have powers to “proactivel­y disrupt and covertly remove” onshore cyberthrea­ts by “hacking into critical infrastruc­ture”.

Security sources confirmed to The Saturday Paper what has been widely speculated: that the leak was a deliberate move by opponents of any further expansion of Home Affairs, to draw public attention to the proposal and stop it in its tracks. Police are now investigat­ing.

Previously called the Defence

Signals Directorat­e, ASD was given its new name by the Gillard government to reflect an increasing engagement with security agencies conducting nonmilitar­y work.

But the agency remained within the Defence portfolio, with its primary role to gather intelligen­ce abroad and provide it to assist both the department and the Australian Defence Force in their mission to protect Australia’s interests.

The Australian Federal Police and the domestic spy agency, the Australian Security Intelligen­ce Organisati­on, are responsibl­e for conducting surveillan­ce at home and can ask ASD for technical advice when necessary.

There are strict rules around

ASD’s activities and if it discovers an Australian is caught up in its overseas net, it must report that and either cease the operation or obtain special authorisat­ion to continue. It cannot conduct spying operations onshore.

After the leak, the two department­al secretarie­s and ASD director Mike Burgess jointly issued a public statement.

They denied any plans to covertly access Australian­s’ private data but noted that ASD’s cybersecur­ity role was being enhanced through legislatio­n.

“The cybersecur­ity function entails protecting Australian­s from cyberenabl­ed crime and cyber-attacks, and not collecting intelligen­ce on Australian­s,” the statement said. “These are two distinct functions, technicall­y and operationa­lly.”

But they added: “In the ever changing world of cybersecur­ity as officials we should explore all options to protect Australian­s and the Australian economy.”

The statement says the agencies “would never provide advice to Government suggesting that ASD be allowed to have unchecked data collection on Australian­s – this can only ever occur within the law, and under very limited and controlled circumstan­ces”.

Peter Dutton was asked about the proposed expansion during a Tuesday news conference he had called to announce the appointmen­t of a new deputy AFP commission­er focused on Commonweal­th transnatio­nal and serious organised crime.

Dutton outlined why he supported an ASD change, zeroing in on the cyberthrea­t from “sophistica­ted criminal syndicates” and particular­ly child pornograph­ers.

“In the child exploitati­on space we know that there are sophistica­ted networks onshore and off that are streaming live product of children being exploited online,” Dutton said.

“Now, if we had a capacity to disrupt that and to destroy those networks, would we want to consider it? Of course we would.”

The widely held view within the security and intelligen­ce community – and in cabinet’s top ranks – is that that capacity already exists, not least within the AFP, whose commission­er Andrew Colvin was standing beside Dutton as he spoke.

The AFP has recently received an extra $70 million in funding towards that work. Colvin said any change to ASD was a matter for policymake­rs.

The Sunday Telegraph report quoted the Home Affairs submission as saying the expansion would enable ASD to “counter or disrupt cyber-enabled criminals both onshore and offshore”.

It also said the plan was for the ministers for Home Affairs and Defence to authorise such activities, bypassing the attorney-general, who otherwise retains the power to sign off on warrants.

On the day the new security arrangemen­ts were announced in July last year, the then attorney-general George Brandis emphasised the necessity of the first law officer’s ongoing checksand-balances role.

This week, Dutton dismissed as “complete nonsense” suggestion­s he planned to spy on Australian citizens and insisted any change “would be accompanie­d by the usual protection­s, including warrant powers either with the AG or with the relevant justice, whatever the case might be”.

The issue of duelling ministeria­l powers also highlights ongoing confusion about how the new Office of National Intelligen­ce, within the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, will relate to the Department of Home Affairs and which will have superior authority in intelligen­ce matters.

There is also a practical problem with seeking to expand ASD’s remit.

Its focus currently is on helping to disrupt activities abroad, not on prosecutin­g criminals.

ASD uses covert methods not able to be disclosed publicly, complicati­ng matters if agencies needed to rely on evidence it gathered to support a domestic criminal prosecutio­n.

The president of the Australian Institute of Profession­al Intelligen­ce Officers, Dr Phil Kowalick, told The Saturday Paper this week that his organisati­on did not support extending ASD’s role to include spying on Australian­s onshore.

“Our position is that Australia already has the capability to investigat­e criminal matters at the Commonweal­th, state and territory levels and [has] processes in place to enable those investigat­ions legally and with proper process and warrants must be approved through the courts,” Kowalick said.

This was to ensure that if a case proceeded to prosecutio­n, the evidence produced could be used.

“Australia also has mechanisms that enable intelligen­ce collection that safeguard Australia and Australian interests through certain agencies, ASD being one,” he said. The activities of those agencies were authorised at ministeria­l level.

Kowalick said: “The question seems to be whether and under what circumstan­ces those intelligen­ce collection agencies should be given powers to take action on issues that would require them to turn their attention to criminal matters and what that would mean for prosecutin­g those offences.”

He asked: What is the problem that would be remedied by making this change?

“It seems to me that there’s scope for discussion on what problem government would be seeking to address by expanding ASD powers and what would be the mechanism for addressing that problem,” he said.

“Giving ASD greater powers – it’s not necessaril­y the most appropriat­e thing to do. You need to have a discussion about the problem, look at what we already have in place and [at] what’s the gap we’re trying to fix.”

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop says there is none.

After Sunday’s leak, Bishop was asked directly if senior public servants were planning for the ASD to spy on Australian­s.

“No,” she said. “The current laws safeguard the privacy of Australian­s but also provide us with an opportunit­y to keep Australian­s safe … I don’t see any national security gap and I certainly believe the current laws safeguard the privacy of Australian­s but also keep Australian­s safe.”

She emphasised that view came from the experts. “I take my advice from our security and intelligen­ce agencies and they have not raised with me any issue that would require an expansion of ASD powers such that you would use them against Australian­s.”

That advice includes the findings of the independen­t intelligen­ce review that formed the basis last year for overhaulin­g the nation’s security structure.

The review recommende­d the establishm­ent of what is now the Office of National Intelligen­ce – a restructur­e of the old Office of National Assessment­s – to play a coordinati­ng role. It also recommende­d turning ASD into a statutory authority, a move that was legislated earlier this year.

The 2017 intelligen­ce review did not recommend establishi­ng the Department of Home Affairs.

“We consider the broad architectu­re of Australia’s oversight arrangemen­ts remains appropriat­e and does not require fundamenta­l change,” it said.

Announcing the creation of Home Affairs on the same day as unveiling the review, Prime Minister Turnbull said it did not mention establishi­ng a Department of Home Affairs because that was outside its remit. But the review did not identify any further governance gaps beyond its proposed changes, which included beefing up its role in advising government and business on cybersecur­ity while continuing to restrict its own activities to offshore surveillan­ce.

It said the then-existing arrangemen­ts represente­d “a carefully constructe­d architectu­re” and reflected “appropriat­e divisions of responsibi­lity while also incorporat­ing important checks and balances”.

In a submission last month to a Senate committee that was examining the legislatio­n to turn ASD into a statutory authority and expand its cybersecur­ity role, the Inspector-General of Intelligen­ce and Security, Margaret Stone, also warned against any move to interpret the change as creating an onshore remit.

“Nothing in the Intelligen­ce Services Act would allow ASD to access restricted data on a computer physically located inside Australia – even where doing so would assist in gathering intelligen­ce or disrupting crime,” Stone’s submission says.

“Accessing data located inside Australia is properly an action that requires an ASIO or police warrant. A change which extended the immunity or which changed ASD’s focus for its covert or intrusive intelligen­ce-related activities to people and organisati­ons inside Australia would be a profound one – the proposed additional function relating to cybercrime is not such a change.”

In its own submission to the Senate inquiry, the ASD said: “ASD’s mission continues to see the agency operate in the slim area between the difficult and the impossible.”

The legislatio­n was subsequent­ly passed. Any further expansion of its role would require new legislatio­n.

Dutton’s responses on Tuesday caused some further irritation among his ministeria­l colleagues, not least because he was talking about ASD as if it were part of his portfolio.

“We need to look at the capacities within the Australian Federal Police, within the agencies within the Home Affairs portfolio otherwise, including obviously a look at the capacity of ASD,” Dutton said.

In an interview the next day, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop suggested by implicatio­n that ASD was not Dutton’s to direct.

“[It] is in the Department of Defence and is answerable therefore to the minister for Defence,” she told Sky News.

“But if you are talking about expanding powers in relation to Australian­s, that is a matter for ASIO and the Australian Federal Police.”

Speaking on Sydney’s Radio 2GB on Thursday, Dutton denied there was any difference between him and Bishop.

“People are adding two and two together here and getting something other than four,” he said.

But he raised the possibilit­y once again of expanding ASD’s powers and again mentioned stamping out child exploitati­on.

“We have the ability potentiall­y to disrupt some of those servers,” Dutton said. “And at the moment, the ASD for example, which is a government agency, could disrupt that server if it was in operation offshore but not if it was operating out of Sydney or Melbourne.”

He agreed with Bishop that there was “no proposal on the table” to expand its powers.

“We’re looking at options at the moment and if we’ve got a proposal to put forward, we’ll put it forward.”

Former defence department secretary, now consultant, Paul Barratt suggests the idea is also causing angst in ASD itself.

“There would be people in ASD who would be deeply offended at the notion that their talents would be directed to spying on their fellow Australian­s, rather than defending the nation,” Barratt says.

“You get these kinds of leaks when people feel that something is seriously amiss.”

Towards the end of his Tuesday news conference, Dutton was asked what he would say to “cynics and sceptics” who believed his centralise­d portfolio has made him too powerful.

He urged people to “cut through the hype and look at the facts”, insisting those agencies being moved from the attorneyge­neral’s portfolio into his own were retaining their autonomy.

“The idea of the Home Affairs portfolio is that we don’t get to a situation where America found itself post 9/11, and that is that there wasn’t a proper exchange of informatio­n, which was evidenced in the security failings,” Dutton said.

“We wanted to pre-empt to make sure that there was a continuati­on and an enhancemen­t of the way in which all of that informatio­n was exchanged, and that’s the idea of the Home Affairs portfolio – it provides that coordinati­on.”

Many in the intelligen­ce and security community are still to be convinced. And some of those cynics and sceptics are people Dutton sits with at the cabinet table.

“GIVING ASD GREATER POWERS ... YOU NEED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PROBLEM, LOOK AT WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE AND AT WHAT’S THE GAP WE’RE TRYING TO FIX.”

 ??  ?? Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton.
Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton.
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