Total Film interview
DOMHNALL GLEESON
Domhnall Gleeson is no stranger to huge blockbusters and daring projects.
He’s General Hux in Star Wars, Bill Weasley in Harry Potter, and one of the actors of his generation in movies such as Ex Machina, Brooklyn and The Revenant. And now he’s giving the performance of his life in The Little Stranger, a truly haunting ghost story. Total Film meets the oh-so-charming Irishman…
Knowing that Domhnall Gleeson loves his football, Total Film is eager to chat to the 35-year-old Irish actor the day after England have knocked Colombia out of the World Cup on penalties. If nothing else, it will make for a nice icebreaker before talking through his sterling work in Lenny Abrahamson’s new ghost story/romantic drama/post-WW2 period drama The Little Stranger, and the eight stellar years leading up to it: Harry Potter And The Deathly Hallows Parts 1 and 2, True Grit, Calvary, Ex Machina, Brooklyn, The Revenant, Frank, American Made, mother! and, of course Star Wars: The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Only the ice-breaker doesn’t work out so well…
“You’re a big footy fan, aren’t you?” begins Total Film, to which the incredulous response comes, “I’m a big City fan did you say?” Gleeson supports Aston Villa; Birmingham City are local rivals. “Footy fan!” His horror abates. “I was about to get very angry! Ah, footy fan. Yeah. I was in the car during the game, so I was following it on my phone, then I got in just in time for the second half of extra time, and penalties. Intense, man.” He pauses, steals a yawn. “Sorry, I’m waking up. I was working late. I’m doing The Kitchen. We were rolling to five in the morning.” A sheepish grin. “Don’t you love it when actors complain?”
The Kitchen, a gangster picture set in ’70s New York, sees Melissa McCarthy, Tiffany Haddish and Elisabeth Moss operate rackets after their husbands are locked up in jail. Gleeson plays a Vietnam vet who becomes a hitman for the Irish mob. It is yet another curveball for the tall, slender actor who’s made a career of being electrically eclectic, his chameleonic gifts and seeming inability to strike a bum note winning him gigs with some of the best filmmakers of our age: the Coens, Alejandro G. Iñárritu, Alex Garland, Darren Aronofsky, J.J. Abrams, Doug Liman, Rian Johnson and Lenny Abrahamson.
And to think, a young Domhnall (pronounced Doh-nall, with a silent ‘m’) didn’t want to act because he feared to follow in the sizeable footsteps of his dad, Brendan, wary of the whiff of nepotism. A Tony award nomination, in 2006, for his role in Broadway production The Lieutenant Of Inishmore helped put that one to bed, and in 2015 he was up against his pa for a British Independent Film Award. They’re close, and have appeared in several stage productions and films together. The N-word has never had a mention.
Gleeson’s rise has been meteoric but his feet remain firmly planted on terra firma. He’s intensely focused on movie sets, but to meet him in a hotel room is to be greeted with a flurry of grins and laughs; his unforced charisma makes it immediately apparent how he can share a screen with Tom Cruise or Leonardo DiCaprio and quietly command the viewer’s attention.
The Little Stanger is Gleeson’s best performance yet, his social-climbing Dr. Faraday tending to a family of fading aristocrats during the long hot summer of 1948. There’s sickness in their manor – the kind that recalls Poe’s The Fall Of The House Of Usher – and disease within Faraday’s soul, too. Our diagnosis? The good doctor spending time within these crumbling walls can only lead to malignancy… The Little Stranger sees you reteam with Lenny Abrahamson after Frank. Was your relationship different this time? Our relationship was maybe closer. He was calm, confident and interested in everything, which is how he always is, but I wouldn’t say he had changed at all, despite all the madness which had happened with [intermediate film] Room. He’s the same guy. Were you eager to work with him again? If Lenny tells you, “I have a script for you to read,” you just read it. You know if he’s involved it’s really special. But he told me there’s anger and repression, and that drew me to it even more. One of the themes is toxic masculinity. Your character, Dr. Faraday, denies his feelings and resolutely perseveres in love after being rejected… He carries a lot of guilt and a lot of complications because of the way he was brought up and the things that he thinks are expected of him by society. Lenny talked to me about, “If you’re carrying something explosive, you walk carefully.” And if you keep pushing it down, it will, at some point, explode.
The Little Stranger is a heady mix of moods and genres, isn’t it? You could look at it just as a ghost story, but actually there are other things that seem to be more compelling as it goes along. There is Faraday’s developing relationship with Caroline [Ruth Wilson], and there are things about mental illness, about pressure, about the period in which this happens, just post-World War 2, and about the role of men in society. There are all these things which sound like you could just have a film about that one thing, but this managed to be a film about all of those things, yet doesn’t feel scattergun. It feels focused.
Did it make your head spin at first? I was so excited at every turn, which is unusual for a film which seems on first glance to be quiet. I was just thrilled by every small revelation of who Faraday is and what his history is and the developing relationship with Caroline, and also what’s going on in the house. I was continually thinking I had a grasp on it and thinking I knew who was responsible, and constantly being proven wrong in a way that wasn’t cheap but that was more and more interesting as it went on. It climaxes on the last page. In a lot of films, the start of the third act is the most exciting part, and then you’re just tying up loose ends. This film goes all the way to the last page, the last image, the last word. I thought that was exceptional. Class plays a big part, too… Yeah. Everyone just thinks of Faraday as the help. They’re not trying to be cruel to him; he’s just totally left out. He’s a bit shabby, his suit doesn’t really fit, the stuff he has is the last of everything he has and probably the first, too. I think he’s made to feel desperately aware at every point that he is not one of them. Even when they’re being nice to him, it comes across as pity. Shame is something he doesn’t deal well with – and he has a lot of it. This is a very different part for you. Most of them are. How do you choose? The only thing that matters is if it is interesting when you read [the script], and if this character is something you’re intimidated by. You should be intimidated by the material, otherwise you’re repeating yourself. And a lot of the time you’re just following the people, as well – good people tend to do good work, so that helps you make your mind up.
Your radar is strong, though. In 2015
alone, you had Ex Machina, Brooklyn, The Force Awakens and The Revenant! [laughs] That was certainly a good year. All that stuff came out and made a splash. It was funny, one of the producers of Ex Machina said to me, “Just because you’ve made a good film doesn’t mean people end up seeing it, so you should enjoy it while it lasts.” In that year, people ended up seeing all those movies, which is a miracle. Also, Alex [Garland, writerdirector of Ex Machina] I’d worked with a couple of times before [Garland co-wrote Never Let Me Go and Dredd]; Brooklyn I’d been attached to for a long time – I’d just met John [Crowley, director] and thought he was fantastic and very, very sensitive, and I really wanted to work with Saoirse [Ronan]. There were different reasons for going into all of those films. But you never know if something’s going to go, or if it doesn’t end up being what you’d hoped it would be. So luck comes into it. Given it was Garland’s directorial debut, did it surprise you just how good Ex Machina proved to be?
No, not really. Ex Machina was so full in his head, the vision of what it would be, and he was also so into other people’s ideas – the production designer’s ideas and the make-up team’s ideas. He’s really into the collaborative thing, so I had a feeling it would really work out well. He has real application to the process of making something good, and also happens to be pretty fucking amazing as well. [laughs]
I’d be really Interested to do a full-on horror movIe
The blockbusters you’ve done have also been of a very high standard. Have you turned down event movies because you feel there’s no depth?
Yeah. I’ve said no to bigger stuff to do something smaller or to do nothing at all. It’s not a question of ‘depth’ necessarily; it’s more a question of whether you’re intimidated by it or think that you can bring something. [pause] Though maybe it’s possible that the films that don’t have any depth to them don’t raise those ideas in your head, and that might be part of the reason they don’t end up being great. But just look at the people involved. The Harry Potter movies… by the time I came on, they’d made so many good movies already, that hopping on board that… If those last two movies had been crap, the only thing that you could surmise about the reason for that would be my involvement! And J.J. is just so skilful and the Force Awakens script was so entertaining… He wasn’t going to screw up Star Wars.
Do you still want to direct? You started off writing and directing short films. Have you learnt from filmmakers like J.J., the Coens and Aronofsky?
It certainly pops into my mind now and again, but working with people who are that bloody good makes you realise what, perhaps, you don’t have. There is a certain sort of thing that I feel I’d be suited for, but you’re looking at two years out of your life, so it better mean everything to you. I don’t want to miss working with some of the people I’m working with at the moment in order to make something that ends up not being great. But I loved it when I did do it. Really loved it.
What is your process when it comes to finding characters?
What I’ve become comfortable with in the last few years is the process, or whatever you want to call it, being different on every film, and trying to find what you feel the film needs and then working your process around that. Something like The Little Stranger was a very, very deep dive down into that. There was so much under the surface and you had to really work that in. It was tricky because it was something different to anything I’d done before, and he was front and centre of the film. It really took something out of me. By the end of that film I was just finished, y’know, in a different way to how I had ever been before. I was shattered and didn’t work for seven months, until now [doing The Kitchen]. So that was full-on. And then other ones, it’s not what the film wants or needs. When I worked with Doug Liman [on American Made], he changes and throws everything out of the window so rapidly. [laughs] If you turn up stuck in your ways and can’t be light on your feet, you’ll destroy yourself.
When you find yourself opposite a major star like Cruise on American Made or DiCaprio in The Revenant, is the process the same? Is it just two guys in a room trying to find the truth?
When they’re good actors, that’s what it gets to – two guys in a room. Because that’s what acting is. And those guys are both really, really, really good at what they do, so yes, that’s what it gets to. And then you realise that any oddness is being carried by yourself. You’re the person who brings the feeling of, “Oh my God, that’s Tom Cruise,” into the room. Leonardo DiCaprio’s not standing there going, “Oh my God, I’m Leonardo DiCaprio.” So any oddness is something that you’ve brought in and have to get rid of. But those guys are brilliant and collaborative and easy to work with. There’s no ego in the work. At all. And on a film like The Revenant, there couldn’t be – it would have screwed everything up pretty quickly.
the revenant shoot was hard. It felt lIke It would never end
Just how brutal was that shoot?
It was really hard. And that’s an understatement. I think Tom Hardy christened it The Foreverment because it felt like it would never end. And it felt like that on the second day! It felt very quickly like we were chasing this thing that was just running away from us all the time, even though Alejandro [G. Iñárritu] knew exactly what he wanted. It was so crazily, never-endingly difficult. It made it very intense. But I was playing the captain of the group and I knew my character was going to get stronger as it went along, which made it easier for me, because I was headed towards a more dramatic and more powerful man by the film’s end. Being the man making the wrong decisions at the beginning was weird and weighed heavily. Y’know, playing the guy who makes the decisions that keep ending us up in more snow. I was like, “Goddammit, why doesn’t he just…!”
Did you feel like you were making something special, though?
That was the other thing that made it OK. Every time Alejandro said, “Come and look at this shot.” It would have really sucked if it felt like it was not going to be any good. Only a couple of times in my life have I known something was going to be good as I was working on it – The Revenant, I kind of knew. If it’s good, it’s worth it. And The Revenant is more than good.
We’ve talked about working with Cruise and DiCaprio. How is it working with your dad, Brendan, or brother, Brian?
It certainly presents a different entry point to working with other people, and it’s a working relationship you want to keep pure. It means more, in a way. So even taking the project together in the first place, you have to ask that question. But when it gets down to it, you just want to work with good people. And my dad and my brother are good people, and both very good at what they do.
Are you a horror fan? Your film debut, Boy Eats Girl, is a horror-comedy, while mother! and The Little Stranger both have one foot in the genre…
I’ve always really enjoyed the effect it has on a cinema. It feels like cinemas were built for comedy and horror. As a collective experience, being scared or made to laugh? It really fills the room up. Boy Eats Girl is as much comedy as horror; I wouldn’t describe mother! as purely horror; and Little Stranger is many things, but it’s certainly disquieting and the atmosphere is edgeof-seat. But I’d be really interested to do a full-on horror. You want to have an effect on an audience. It’s really all you want. The great filmmakers I’ve worked with, that’s what they’re after – having an effect.
Presumably you’d be more inclined to be in something with complex characters, such as Hereditary, rather than, say, a straight-up slasher movie?
I’ve not seen Hereditary yet. It’s playing in the theatre opposite. But everything I’ve heard about it? Yeah. It’s exactly the sort of film you want to be a part of.
How do you find being famous? You must get recognised given you’re General Hux and Bill Weasley?
It can feel intense and I’m not necessarily good with that. It’s not how I was built. But it just depends on the person and how they handle themselves. I’ve got to the point now that if I see
someone whose work I really dig, I leave them alone because I think, “Ah, maybe I’ll make their day better by not doing that.” Because I’ve met a load of people, or worked with people, who are truly famous, y’know? Like Leo and Tom and Angelina Jolie [who directed Gleeson in Unbroken]. They can’t really go anywhere. That’s not my issue. I’m doing just fine by comparison. My favourite is Margot Robbie, who is incredibly well-known and has a very intense fan base, and she said, “There’s nothing bad about it, comparatively, to complain about.” And I think, “If Margot’s not complaining…”
You saw the Star Wars prequels before the originals. You’re not one of those people who prefer them, are you?
I saw the prequels in the cinema, and that’s the way Star Wars is built to be seen. I’d never seen the originals all the way through. But [when I did] I was personally drawn to the original trilogy more.
What do you make of the portion of the fans who are rabidly anti-The Last Jedi and are even talking about raising cash to remake it?
If you buy your ticket, you can react any way you want. It’s great that it means so much to people and I respect anybody’s opinion. But it’s not the way I feel. At all. I think Rian [Johnson] is a tremendous filmmaker. And I don’t place anything on reviews, but generally feedback has been brilliant – on the street, and people talking about it, what they like about it and stuff. It’s been hugely popular. So it’s possible that the pushback or whatever you want to call it, that it’s been made a bigger deal of than it is in terms of the portion of people who have that problem.
Social media means that every film now seems to endure a backlash, and then a backlash to the backlash…
Totally. And the one with the most retweets gets read the most. It snowballs and becomes the most ‘popular’ opinion when actually it might just be the most widely read opinion.
Do you and Adam Driver have fun on set? Kylo Ren humiliates General Hux in both movies. Do you have a laugh about that?
Adam is amazing. He also worked with my brother Brian on Steven Soderbergh’s Logan Lucky. My brother had a brilliant time with him. I was very jealous. Adam is one of those actors who… Those sets take five months to build and the shots take a long time to set up, so you can get
stuck in patterns or things can get overwhelming. But when Adam looks at you, he drags you into an actors’ place. I love working with Adam.
Episode IX
is about to start shooting. Is there even more pressure because it’s the trilogy closer?
That’s something you’d have to ask J.J. – he came back because he wanted to do it again, and that’s the only reason to do anything, because you want to be there. I’m sure there is pressure but you have to enjoy it. If you don’t enjoy it you should hand in your Equity Card, because if you can’t enjoy Star Wars, you’ll never enjoy anything.
It must be a thrill to have J.J. again?
Well, myself and Oscar Isaac were up for directing it, but that didn’t work out in the end… J.J. is great to work with. And he’s really good at making films.
How have you found returning to acting with after that long break?
The Kitchen
It’s been phenomenal. I don’t know how much I can talk about the character, but again, it’s one of those ones where you follow the good people. Melissa [McCarthy], Tiffany [Haddish] and Elisabeth [Moss] – they’re all just powerhouses, y’know? And the film’s set in the ’70s. They shut down streets in New York. All the cars are ’70s, the clothes. It’s like, “Oh my God, this is what I thought movies were when I was a kid!” Well, it was that and westerns. [laughs]
Let’s finish with a couple of oddities on your CV. is a whole different flavour for you…
Peter Rabbit Yeah, Peter Rabbit was a chance to do a comedy. I hadn’t done that in a movie before – where the only aim is to be funny, and particularly where the only aim is to be funny for kids. Seeing and hearing young kids really like something you’ve done? That’s been bananas. I’ve loved it.
And how about Richard Curtis’ romcom
About Time?
Weirdly, of all the films I’ve ever done, the biggest reaction I’ve had is About Time. Star Wars and Harry Potter have huge reactions, but I’ve met so many people, especially in America, and a lot of men… [pause] It seems like they were dragged along to this romcom and then called their dad to tell them that they loved them for the first time. Or people whose dads have since passed on, they tell me it was a special film that they watched together. I’ve had a craaazy amount of feedback to that film. I’m really proud of it. I think my grandma would have loved it and I wish she was around to see it.
The Guardian praised you in About Time, but called you “a ginger Hugh Grant”…
I’ll take it as a compliment. I don’t know why the ginger thing has to separate us. But Hugh absolutely killed in those [Curtis] films [Four Weddings And A Funeral, Notting Hill].
Finally, you’ve worked with some legends. Who’s still on the wishlist?
There are a lot of people I’d like to work with again. Alex I’d like to work with again. My brother got to work with Paul Thomas Anderson before I did [Brian is the doctor in Phantom Thread] and loved working with him, so I’d love for that to happen someday. There’s loads of good stuff being made, so many good people out there… [pause] I feel if you say it, you jinx it! But I still find myself getting just as excited and just as freaked out at the notion of working with greats. That’s how you know that your appetite hasn’t gone.
adam drIver Is amazIng. I love workIng wIth hIm
THE LITTLE STRANGER OPENS ON 21 SEPTEMBER.