FIGHTING FOR GENDER EQUALITY
Yumi Stynes’ game-changing project
“I have felt objectified, I have felt hit on...”
Is Australia sexist? That’s the question TV presenter, writer and podcast star Yumi Stynes is asking in a new documentary for SBS, which examines a startling report showing Australia has dropped down to 35 in world rankings – lower than some developing countries – for gender equality. In the doco, Stynes examines pay disparity and introduces us to some shocking “experiments”, which show the lived experience of men and women in this country can be markedly different. We find out more about why she signed on to this controversial TV show...
Your show made us really, really angry ... some of those stats! Shocking!
It gets you fired up, doesn’t it!
What made you decide to do it?
I’ve always been really interested in talking about sexism and issues around gender equality.
Why is that?
My mum, who is Japanese, always worked. She was always part of running the show, but she never got quite as much credit as my dad. For me it was like, “Hang on a second...” Then, having kids of my own, I just really feel like I want it to be better for my daughters.
How old are your kids now?
I’ve got four – the first three are girls, and the last one, a baby, is a boy. So they are 16, 14, 4, and 3 years old. In the doco, you mention statistics on how many women aged 18 to 24 are harassed online when they sign up for dating sites. Does it worry you that your older girls are about to witness all that? Yeah, it does. They’re not there yet, because when you are 16, you don’t have to go online, [to meet people], you just go to school. I hope they might be better [at handling it] than us, because they go through all this training about social-media safety and stuff. But, I don’t know, maybe when my daughter is, say, 25, and finds herself single, she might have to do the app thing, and that’s when she’ll get it right up in her face.
In your show, you join a dating site– and the abuse starts rolling in.
That barrage of messages, it was just really unprovoked. We didn’t put up a provocative picture. We didn’t say something sexual in the blurb. It was a photo of me, that I took of myself in the mirror right after I’d been for a run. So, I was feeling strong and fit, and the sun was on my skin and I was feeling good. I was just wearing running clothes, and it was so not sexual at all! So to get these reactions – it was weird. It was really like being slapped a few times.
Then you decide to meet one of the guys. What was going through your mind?
I guess I felt very alone doing that. We filmed in Perth, and that’s a city I’m not used to – I felt quite vulnerable. It was in this really carefully set up situation, with a professional film crew, they had security and the whole thing was being filmed from multiple angles – I really couldn’t have been safer. But in the end, it was me in the photo, and it was me having to converse with this guy who felt entitled to my time, and being heard by me.
Did you feel threatened?
There was definitely a feeling that he could have overpowered me if he had wanted to. I am not a big person. I felt a huge amount of empathy for people who have to go on these dates.
Another thing you chat about in the doco is the subject of gender pay disparity. Have you experienced this in your career?
Oh, definitely. Haven’t you? Haven’t we all? Some of it, you could be thinking, “Is this all in my head?” but others, it’s quite clear. For instance, I once got sent, by accident, my male colleague’s pay packet. It was addressed to me, so I opened it. I saw what he was getting paid. We were doing the exact same work and he was being paid a lot more.
Was this at Channel V?
Yes.
Was it Osher Günsberg?
No, it wasn’t Osher. I would rather not say [who it was]. But it was really like a slap. Because I had been working my absolute arse off to do a good job, and to really try and be excellent. And time and time again you would get told, “Oh, you are doing this job because of the way you look,” or “They are trying to fill some sort of diversity quota.”
Over the years, you have interviewed a lot of rock stars. Have you ever felt uncomfortable?
I have felt objectified. And I have felt hit on, like someone was definitely communicating that sex was possibly on the cards if I was interested. But I think that those types of interactions can happen just in life. The times when it is very unfair is when there is a massive power disparity – say, if a boss was doing it to me – someone that can hire or fire me, or vastly outranked me. I have had interview subjects that have batted their eyelashes at me, or told me their hotel room number, but to be honest, I have always felt pretty safe in my power to refuse.
Tell us, do you think Australia is sexist?
I do think Australia is sexist. But I feel an immense optimism in the ways we can change. In next few years, we are going to see a huge influx of women into parliament and other positions of political power. Women are going to have seen, for instance, the Wentworth by-election [which Kerryn Phelps won], and think, “I couldn’t possibly be worse than some of the current serving politicians.”
Has all that stuff burnt you for putting yourself out there?
I would love to say no, but it does make you question whether you would want to stick your neck out. And I really feel for politicians, people like Mehreen Faruqi, the abuse she cops just for being a parliamentarian, and a woman, and a Muslim – it would really make you think, is it worth it? Is it worth doing this for the amount of abuse I have to put up with? The abuse I put up with was rape threats. And violence against my family, and people who worked for me. And it really was harrowing. It makes you go, you know what? I don’t want this. Is Australia Sexist? premieres Dec. 4, 8.40pm on SBS.