Cape Breton Post

Lametti: conversion therapy bill protects ‘good faith conversati­ons’

- BRIAN PLATT

OTTAWA — Justice Minister David Lametti told MPs on Tuesday that he's skeptical amendments are needed to protect “good faith conversati­ons” about a person's sexuality from being criminaliz­ed under his bill to ban forced conversion therapy.

Lametti told the Commons justice committee on Tuesday that he believes the bill already excludes such conversati­ons from the new Criminal Code offences created in the legislatio­n, and he would oppose adding new language if it's simply redundant.

Conservati­ve leader Erin O'Toole has previously alleged the Liberals are playing “wedge politics” with the bill by not including the clarificat­ion despite objections from Conservati­ve MPs, religious organizati­ons and other groups.

“The government knows if the bill is more clearly drafted, they might lose their 'gotcha' effect that is becoming far too common in the politics we see to the south of us,” O'Toole said in October when the bill was introduced.

Bill C-6 creates new Criminal Code offences to prohibit causing minors to undergo conversion therapy or forcing an adult to undergo it against their will, and carries punishment of up to five years in prison. The bill also bans advertisin­g conversion therapy or receiving a material benefit from it.

The bill defines conversion therapy as a practice seeking to change someone's sexual orientatio­n to heterosexu­al, to repress non-heterosexu­al behaviour, or to change someone's gender identity to match the sex they were assigned at birth.

All but seven Conservati­ve MPs voted in favour of the legislatio­n at second reading, but the Conservati­ves are looking to amend the bill to make it crystal clear that conversati­ons with family members, teachers, pastors, doctors and other counsellor­s and educators will not be captured as a criminal offence.

The Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs also submitted a brief to the justice committee, written by former Bloc Québécois MP Richard Marceau, that calls for a clarifying amendment to protect “private conversati­ons” in which personal views are expressed, as well as “conversati­ons with pastoral counsellor­s, faith leaders or religious leaders about sincerely held beliefs and the expectatio­ns flowing therefrom.”

“This proposed amendment does not change the substance of the bill,” Marceau said in his submission. “It would, however, calm worries expressed by many parents, educators and religious leaders.”

But Lametti said he believes an amendment along these lines is unnecessar­y because the bill only applies to a “practice, service or treatment,” terms which are defined in other areas of the Criminal Code.

“All of these terms imply an establishe­d or formalized interventi­on, one that is generally offered to the public or a segment of the public,” Lametti told the committee. “A mere conversati­on cannot therefore be considered a practice, service or treatment, unless it forms part of a formalized interventi­on such as a talk therapy session.”

Lametti also said that, from a legal perspectiv­e, it's best to keep the definition narrow.

“What you're trying to do in a definition is simply capture the activity you want to capture without capturing more than that,” he told MPs. “There is the danger of overdefini­ng, and so a long list can be either over-inclusive or under-inclusive, you get into debates about whether it's a closed list or an open list.”

Conservati­ve MP Michael Cooper said his party has heard from stakeholde­rs worried that the bill's definition is still too vague.

“Whether intentiona­l or not, there is significan­t concern that this bill will capture those good faith conversati­ons,” Cooper said, and asked whether Lametti would be open-minded to an amendment meant to reassure people.

“I'm not inclined to be open to amendments which are redundant,” Lametti responded. “I'm open to good faith amendments, but if it's there, and it's already captured, and the best legal advice that we have is that it doesn't need to be improved, then you're going to have to bear the burden of proof of trying to convince me.”

Meanwhile, NDP MP Randall Garrison told Lametti he's dismayed to see Bill C-6 still allows for consenting adults to undergo conversion therapy.

“I remain very supportive of the bill as a whole, even though I remain disappoint­ed that this isn't a complete ban on conversion therapy,” Garrison said. He asked if Lametti would be open to an amendment that would “add adults to this bill in a way which wouldn't endanger the whole bill if there were a Charter challenge.”

“You're correct to say that I do fear a Charter challenge,” Lametti said. “It would be a difficult thing to defend in court. The best minds in my department tried to wrap their head around it and couldn't, because (adding adults) was our starting position, I will admit. But if you can find a way, I'd be willing to consider it.”

 ?? 123RF STOCK PHOTO ?? Bill C-6 creates new Criminal Code offences to prohibit causing minors to undergo conversion therapy or forcing an adult to undergo it against their will.
123RF STOCK PHOTO Bill C-6 creates new Criminal Code offences to prohibit causing minors to undergo conversion therapy or forcing an adult to undergo it against their will.
 ?? PHOTO BY PARLVU. PARL.GC.CA ?? Justice Minister David Lametti testifies via teleconfer­ence before the House of Commons justice committee on Tuesday.
PHOTO BY PARLVU. PARL.GC.CA Justice Minister David Lametti testifies via teleconfer­ence before the House of Commons justice committee on Tuesday.

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