Ursino’s cocaine talk was ‘stupid’
Accused underworld boss said he didn’t mean to discuss drug importing
Accused underworld boss Giuseppe (Pino) Ursino admitted to talking about cocaine importing and other crimes with a paid police agent but told court he didn’t really mean it.
“The stupid words come out of my mouth,” Ursino, 65, of Bradford, Ont., told the University Ave. court Wednesday, testifying under cross-examination from federal prosecutor James Clark.
“What I’m talking is one thing,” Ursino said. “What I mean is another.”
Ursino’s testimony marks the first time an accused senior member of the ‘Ndrangheta organized crime group has testified in court to defend himself in a criminal proceeding in Canada, according to police sources specializing in organized crime.
The prosecution also marks the first time in Canada the ’Ndrangheta has been targeted as an organized crime group since the offence of criminal organization came into effect in 1997, senior federal prosecutor Tom Andreopoulos said earlier in an interview.
Ursino and Cosmin (Chris) Dracea, 41, of Toronto each face two counts of cocaine trafficking for the benefit of a criminal organization and one charge of conspiracy to commit an indictable offence.
In the second day of oftenemotional cross-examination, Clark repeatedly challenged Ursino’s description of himself as nothing more than a closeto-broke food importer with a bad back.
The prosecutor noted Ursino spoke often about drug importing, debt collection, money laundering and ‘Ndrangheta structure with paid police agent Carmine Guido.
Clark asked if he spoke with Guido about crime because he was Guido’s boss. “Wrong,” Ursino replied. Ursino accused Guido of continually trying to draw him into conversations about crime “because he wanted to hook me like a fish.” Clark questioned Ursino about how he appeared to have an understanding of ‘Ndrangheta history and structure. Ursino said he learned about ‘Ndrangheta structure and history in Grade 5, his last year of formal schooling in his birthplace of Calabria in southern Italy.
Court has heard more than 40 secretly recorded conversations involving Guido from a two-year RCMP-led investigation called Project OPhoenix, which ended in June 2015.
Ursino said that the secretly recorded tapes that were played in court didn’t ring true or suggested they were doctored.
After a recess, Judge Brian O’Marra told the jury that portions of the tapes played in court were edited with the full consent of defence counsel and the Crown and that nothing improper had been done with them.
“You and I are not being deprived of anything that we should have,” O’Marra told the jury.
In earlier testimony, Guido called Ursino a senior member of the board of directors of the ‘Ndrangheta in the GTA — called the “Camera Di Control
lo.” Ursino told Clark he hadn’t even heard the term until Guido used the term with him. Clark asked Ursino why he said on one tape that Carmine Verduci of York Region was on the board of control.
“I don’t know my reason,” Ursino said.
Verduci was shot dead in April 2014 outside a Woodbridge café. The murder remains unsolved.
He also said Clark misinterpreted a recorded conversation in which he told Guido to go do a job with “serious young men who never talk.”
“That was about cocaine was it not?” Clark asked.
“I’m not sure if it was about cocaine or what else,” Ursino said. “I come up with the words.”
Ursino said Guido owed him $6,000 after a café they ran together went out of business. Ursino said he was desperate for money, and invented stories about criminal activity in order to stay close to Guido, who he called a drug trafficker, liar and expert at debt collections.
“You were afraid of him but you wanted to stay close to him?” Clark asked.
“I was desperate for money,” Ursino said. “He stole it from my pocket.”
Clark noted that Ursino didn’t mention the $6,000 in the secretly recorded conversations with Guido.
Clark also questioned why he discussed cocaine importation and how they had to “give the 75 back” in talk about a drug load. “Only words,” Ursino said. He appeared to briefly melt down as he gesticulated forcefully with his hands, calling Guido “that lousy bastard.”
“OK ... I don’t have answers for you,” Ursino continued. “That’s the big problems ... I don’t have your answer. Please!”
The trial continues.