Talking race and diversity in Canada
Video series brings views of regular people to the country’s elite
While the pandemic has dominated news headlines, this past year and a half will also be remembered as a reckoning on race and diversity: from Black Lives Matter rallies to the Wet’suwet’en pipeline protests. These movements have contributed significantly to our cultural and political discourse.
Canadian pollster David Herle wanted to add to the conversation.
Herle, a political consultant and principal partner with The Gandalf Group, pulled together a group of 24 people from across Canada to explore whether the saying “diversity is our strength” actually rings true. The result is “Through the Looking Glass,” a threepart video series being published on thestar.com.
“I constantly see this disconnect between how elites talk and think about issues and in the ways that most Canadians think about issues,” said Herle, who acts as moderator. “I thought to bring to the elite of Canada a view of how regular Canadians think.” Herle has also led election campaigns for former prime minister Paul Martin and former Ontario premier Kathleen Wynne.
Participants from urban and rural communities were invited to join one of four focus groups based on ethnicity. Filmed remotely via Zoom in October, the frank discussions went on, in some cases for at least eight hours in total, with the final episodes edited down to 30 minutes each.
In Episode 1, participants are asked what Canada means to them. Episode 2 examines recent events and what they symbolize. And in the final episode, Herle asks the participants about their personal experience and what it means to live in Canada as Black, white, Indigenous people and people of colour.
“I hope this series opens a lot of eyes to the reality faced by racialized people in Canada,” said Herle. “Because I found it shocking on balance overall. I thought I was kind of ‘woke’ but not at all.”
The Star spoke with Herle, who says the idea for the series seemed a natural extension of his podcast “The Herle Burly,” which includes conversations with Canadian political luminaries on critical issues such as race and diversity.
In the beginning of the series, comments are made about how Canadians care about diversity and inclusion, that we are very polite and say sorry a lot, but as the conversation deepens, the myth differs from the experience, would you agree?
That is exactly what I found through the conversations. I think the top part of the discussion is important even though it is subsequently revealed to be (heavy in) mythology, because people do want a balance and are positive about being here, whether it is for economic opportunity or the diversity of the country. So I don’t want this series to make Canadians think that we live in a terrible country.
But I found over the course of the conversations that a division between diversity and inclusion arose which I was not aware of. Diversity is a fact; there are lots of different kinds of people in Canada. Whether we are inclusive of those people is an entirely different matter.
Canadians talk about diversity, but we don’t talk about inclusion. And they are not the same thing. We think that they are synonymous, but they are not.
In one episode, a Black man from Dartmouth, N.S., talks about the racial microaggressions and racism he faces in his small town. What were the differences between participants from urban and rural communities?
It was pretty striking. I did really want to have a Black person from Nova Scotia because they have had a Black community over their history. And a lot of people in Canada do not know that. It is pretty striking to people that most people of colour do not even think of Canada as a cohesive unit. They see it as very geographically based and particularly urban versus rural or small town.
So there was an absolute consensus that your experience as a person of colour in Toronto, for example, is going to be different from a person of colour from a small community.
In addition to hearing that Black, Indigenous and people of colour’s experiences in urban and rural settings are different, what findings from the conversations were surprising to you?
What struck me was a positive thing that the Indigenous people did not resent the attention or the profile given to Black Lives Matter in Canada. I would have fully thought that it was reasonable for Indigenous people to see all the concern about Black Lives Matter and go, you gotta be kidding me but they didn’t.
They empathized and they believe a rising tide of acceptance will raise all boats and if Canadians come to treat Black people better they will come to treat Indigenous people better.
In the series, you acknowledge your biases as a white man from the Prairies.
There is criticism of white people leading discussions on race. So what were the conversations or the thinking process that took place?
I came to this with a lot of blind spots. And so I did a few things that I hope helped. The first is that I consulted Indigenous people and people of colour on the discussion guide before I did the groups. The second thing is that I did not pretend to be any more inclusive than I actually am. I did not pretend to be a different person than I am. And I asked questions from my frankly, white perspective.
And these are the types of questions white people would ask and the kind of answers they wanted to know. I wanted to know. And the last thing is that I don’t have any lessons from this.
I am not trying to tell anybody what to think at the end of this. Because I do not have any moral position on that. I am a researcher and I expose this for people and they can make their own decisions of what they think.
This conversation has been edited for clarity and length.
“Canadians talk about diversity but we don’t talk about inclusion. And they are not the same thing.” DAVID HERLE
RESEARCHER