Spy software technology ‘quite widely available for those who want it’
– Part of the public discourse not only in Greece but worldwide is the use of spyware like Predator or Pegasus. How accessible is this kind of spy software by governments or private actors? What’s the accumulated experience in the last few years? How can states handle the “privatization” of intelligence and the technological revolution?
This is a real challenge. A generation ago the technologies that enabled you to do this were really in government hands. But increasingly these capabilities are also available in the private sector. In a way to perform a form of hacking. We have seen in the last few years cases which have been revealed. You can legislate against it but of course if you are an ill-intentioned individual that won’t stop you. So on occasions there are diplomatic ways, if an individual’s company is based on another country you can pressure etc. And there may also be economic pressure. But essentially it’s the same problem as hacking, there are groups out there that are highly sophisticated and can use this to get information which should not be accessed. And therefore the normal security mechanisms you need to get the access to. For instance, the mobile phone hacking kit, you need to actually get the initial breach, so you need to get the phishing attack or whatever in order to install the software on your telephone. Therefore strong cybersecurity protocols and training are important. But there will inevitably be errors. And I think anybody who is in a very sensitive public role where communications should be checked from time to time to see whether there is a problem with it. In the same way that when you go to some hostile countries you take a throwaway phone, not your smartphone. But you realize that this attack can land on you even when you are at home, not just when you’re in a hostile third country.
– How easy is it for someone to access such technology? Is it expensive? Is it easy to find in the market?
I’m not an expert on that. I think it’s pretty clear that there have been certain technologies that are very easy for countries to buy and then have deniability of them. I think the cost of those capabilities will come down. You know it started with one, and now there have been others. So there will be more. And the underlying technology is quite widely available for those who want it.