Indianness being questioned is a disturbing thought

In an interview to Karan Thapar, outgoing Vice-President M HAMID ANSARI talks about a wide range of issues, including on cow vigilante attacks, lynchings and the mood of the Muslim community. The interview is scheduled to be broadcast by the Rajya Sabha T

In 2015, BJP General Secretary Ram Madhav criticised your behaviour as vice-president. He said you had deliberately not participated in Yoga Day functions in that year and he also added that the Rajya Sabha TV, which falls under your charge, hadn’t covered the event. Were you surprised and taken aback? Surprised, yes. Because the facts were well known and very clear and there were my colleagues in office who put the public wise to it very quickly. There was no ambiguity, there was no confusion. Did the gentlemen ever personally apologise or personally explain his actions? Let’s not talk about that. Something else you did as vice-president was to travel extensively in Africa. But many of those visits happened at a time when the number of attacks on Africans in India was steadily growing. Was this an instance of Indian racism or simply a law and order issue? Well, it is scandalous to begin with. It was the failure of law and order and it was the failure of public behaviour. There can’t be two views on a situation like this, wherever it takes place, anywhere it takes place. So, was the official response the right one or should they have been more willing to accept that this was more than just a law and order issue? Could have been more forthcoming. I want to use this moment to talk about the general situation in the country. Hardly a day goes by without us reading about cow vigilante attacks. Earlier we read about lynchings. We have read about beef bans. How do you view all of this? Breakdown of Indian values, breakdown of the ability of the authorities at different levels in different places to be able to enforce what should be normal law enforcing work, and, overall, the very fact that Indianness of any citizen being questioned is a disturbing thought. As we speak, there are many who believe we are becoming an intolerant country. Do you fear that yourself? Yes, because I interact with fellow citizens and there are great many people from different walks of life who come and talk about it. I spoke about it in my last speech, in Bengaluru a few days ago. But have you ever shared our concerns, you apprehensions with the Prime Minister or with the government? Yes, yes. But what passes between the Vice-President and the Prime Minister in the nature of things must remain in the domain of privileged conversation. I want to ask you about their (the PM’s and other ministers’) response. Were you satisfied? Well, there is always an explanation and there is always a reason. Now, it is a matter of judgement, whether you accept the explanation, you accept the reasoning and its rationale. Let me then come to a speech you made on Sunday in Bengaluru. You said the version of nationalism that places cultural commitments at its core is usually perceived as the most conservative and illiberal form of nationalism. It promotes intolerance and arrogant patriotism. Yes. And I am not the only one in the country. A great many people feel the same way. You see, why do we talk about tolerance. Because you feel the need to tolerate something which may not entirely be in your scheme of things. But this has been my point and this is not the only occasion in which I have spoken about. Tolerance is a good virtue, but it is not a sufficient virtue, and therefore you have to take the next step and go from tolerance to acceptance. It (acceptance) is not happening by and large.

I will not talk about political people or political parties. But, to me, every time such a comment (against Muslims) appear or come to my knowledge, I mean my first reaction was that, A: the person is ignorant, B: that he is prejudiced and C: he does not fit into the framework that India has always prided itself on, which is to be an accommodative society. Many people say that as a result of such comments, as a result of the mood they have created, the Muslim community is apprehensive, its feeling insecure. Yes, it is a correct assessment, from all I hear from different quarters. I heard the same thing in Bengaluru, I have heard from other parts of the country. I hear more about it in north India. There is a feeling of unease, a sense of insecurity is creeping in. Are you worried that the number of Indian Muslims getting attracted to ideologies like those of the Al Qaida or ISIS could start increasing sharply? The official estimates are that if there are numbers, they are miniscule. I think the Muslim in India is sui generis. Mind you, every seventh citizen of India is a Muslim, just as every fifth citizen belongs to a religious minority. There is no evidence that any process of extremist indoctrination is underway in India. An individual can always go off the track. How confident are you that your successor will give the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha a fair say? Look at the history of Indian VicePresidents. They have been politicians, they have been philosophers, they have been educationists, they have been senior most members of the judiciary. They have all delivered. Nobody has said that they have not delivered. Speaking in Bangalore on Sunday you said, and I am quoting, ‘the political immobility in relation to Jammu and Kashmir is disconcerting’. Are you apprehensive that the situation may be passing beyond a point of control? Well, when young boys and girls come out on to the streets and throw stones day after day, week after week, month after month, it’s something to worry about because they are our children, they are our citizens. Something is obviously going wrong. What exactly, I am not the final word on it. But I think there are enough people in the country who are worried about it. Eminent people belonging to different political persuasions and their worry must be taken on board.

WELL, WHEN YOUNG BOYS AND GIRLS (IN KASHMIR) COME OUT ON TO THE STREETS AND THROW STONES DAY AFTER DAY …. IT’S SOMETHING TO WORRY ABOUT BECAUSE THEY ARE OUR CHILDREN. SOMETHING IS OBVIOUSLY GOING WRONG. THERE IS A FEELING OF UNEASE, A SENSE OF INSECURITY IS CREEPING IN (AMONG MUSLIMS).