‘Akalis definitely trying to scuttle Bargari probe, clearly have something to hide’

Amid the growing electoral heat, Punjab chief minister, Captain Amarinder Singh, retains his poise. No stranger to controversy, real and perceived, he finds the latest tirade against him and his government on the sensitive sacrilege issue a desperate attempt of the Opposition to win a fighting chance in the upcoming bypolls — an attempt in which, he believes, some of his own party colleagues seem to have become “pawns”. In an interview with Vinod Sharma, he seeks to nail his critics, while sharing his thoughts on some other issues of national and political interest, including his willingness to contest the 2022 Assembly polls.

It’s been over two years since your government took over. Yet the probe into the Bargari sacrilege seems to be stuck in a time freeze. The delay, say many even in your own party, is deliberate. Your comments.

Those who are complaining now are either the ones who were, in the first place, responsible for the delay, or those who have closed their eyes to the facts of the matter. The Akalis, who are now crying hoarse over delayed justice, are the ones who were responsible for it. They handed over the case to the CBI, and then ensured that the CBI did not take the investigations forward, and finally managed to pressure the agency into filing a closure report without the probe being completed. In fact, we still haven’t been able to get the case files back from CBI (after withdrawing the case from its charge), thanks to them, as they have now apparently influenced the agency into reopening the probe, with the clear intent of delaying justice further.

As for the Congressmen who have been blaming my government for the delay, it’s unfortunate that they are playing into the hands of the Opposition, which is hell bent on making this an election issue once again. Either they are ignorant of the situation or have become pawns in the hands of these parties. In any case, they are doing more damage to Punjab than even to their party. And I hope good sense will prevail on them soon.

But their [Congressmen’s] anger seems to stem from the fact that you have reneged from your poll promise of bringing the Badals to book once you’re in power.

Let me make it clear. I had promised that whoever is found guilty will be punished, and I will not spare anyone, even if it’s the Badals themselves. But have they been found guilty yet? The probe has not even started, so I can’t just go and throw them into jail, can I? We are not living in a jungle raj, and I have personally never believed in vendetta politics, as I have always said clearly and openly. Unfortunately, that’s what some of the Congressmen want me to do, and I’m certainly not going to oblige them. Let the SIT complete its probe, and I can assure them, and the people of Punjab, that I will not let anyone found involved in the sacrilege cases go scot free.

You’ve just said you want to wait for the probe to be completed before concluding anyone’s guilt or innocence. Yet you seem to have given a clean chit to Parkash Singh Badal in the case in an earlier interview to HT that has been variously interpreted by your party colleagues and the Opposition. What’s your considered view in the matter?

That is a total lie. I never said that, though a twist was sought to be given to my words recently. What I said was clear in the very interview from which people have drawn the wrong conclusion. I’d said (and let me repeat it for clarity) — I don’t think Badal went around tearing the Guru Granth Sahib himself (I seriously don’t see how anyone could have assumed that in the first place in any case.). But that does not absolve him of his role in triggering the cataclysmic event, which was preceded by all that hobnobbing he did with Dera Sacha Sauda. He wanted Dera support in the elections, and was ready to play the religious card to get it, and to hell with the consequences. I don’t think he can claim innocence from the consequences that resulted. And he also cannot absolve himself of blame for the tragic incidents that followed as a result of the unprovoked police firing.

If Parkash Singh Badal says that neither he, as chief minister, nor his son Sukhbir, as deputy CM and home minister, were aware of what was happening and the police simply went berserk and opened fire, then they’re worse leaders than I believe them to be. No chief minister can claim ignorance on such a major issue, and Punjab Police is a disciplined force that doesn’t just go berserk.

Are you accusing them of being complicit?

Isn’t it an obvious conclusion? Their actions clearly show they don’t want the truth to come out. Because they are worried that the truth will expose them. Why else did they force the closure report [by the CBI] without allowing the probe to be completed? And why else have they prevented the CBI from even handing over the case files to us despite our repeated pleas? Clearly, they have something to hide. What that something is will come out in the SIT investigation. That will nail the extent of their guilt, and the law will then take its course.

But you’ve made the entire investigation an open-ended affair, with no timeframe? Doesn’t that amount to delaying justice on your part too?

These things take time. You can’t just open a file and close it. It’s a serious crime and we have to get to the root of it. No true Sikh can tolerate the desecration of the holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and, as the chief minister, it is my duty, as well as a personal promise, to ensure that the culprits get exemplary punishment. And rest assured, that will happen, sooner rather than later.

You had earlier said that the 2017 polls were your last. But now you want to re-contest in 2022. What has brought about the change?

If you look at my interviews soon after I took over, I had made it clear that I would continue as long as Punjab and its people need me. Before the 2017 polls, while I was aware that things were bad, I did not know the extent of the mess which the Akalis and the BJP had left behind. Immediately after taking over, I realised that one term may not be enough to address all the problems and put Punjab back in its earlier position as the country’s front-ranking state. Hence my decision to re-contest, if needed. Of course, if we are able to correct all the ills in the next two and a half years, I would be more than happy to hand over the reins to the next generation.

Is it because the Congress is too weak to build new leadership in Punjab and elsewhere in India?

As just mentioned, my decision is connected only and solely with the state of affairs prevailing in Punjab. And frankly, I don’t see how you can conclude that Congress can’t build a new leadership. It has happened before and will happen again. The old has to give way to the young, not just in the Congress but in every party, at some point of time.

You have been advocating Rahul Gandhi’s return as Congress president. Will he heed your advice? Have you spoken to him about it?

We, the senior party leaders, have individually and collectively spoken to Rahul many times on the issue. Unfortunately, he has stayed adamant. He has taken the onus of the party’s defeat in the Lok Sabha polls on himself, which is really not correct. It was a collective responsibility and Rahul wasn’t to blame. But perhaps he needs time to introspect and think things through before he’s ready to don the Congress president’s mantle again.

If he does agree to again helm the Congress, should it not be through organisational polls?

Any decision on this has to be of the party collectively, and by consensus. That has always been the case and will be in the future too.

Rahul’s return, if at all, will again expose the Congress to the charge of being controlled by the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty. Won’t that be a problem in the absence of tangible issues against the BJP, especially Narendra Modi?

I don’t understand this talk of dynasty. At the end of the day, only merit makes the difference. Rahul, as I have always maintained, is more than competent to lead the party. If he happens to be part of a certain family, that goes to his advantage, not his disadvantage. Having grown in a political environment cannot be considered a demerit for a political leader, after all!

Moreover, running a complex party like the Congress isn’t easy without the right temperament, regardless of merit and popular acceptability. The Cong’s young leaders are generally seen as lacking that temperament and a staying power that can match that of the top BJP leaders.

I challenge anyone to say that Rahul lacks merit or acceptability. He is one of the most popular leaders in the country today, and understands the pulse of the people better than most, including the so-called top BJP leaders. Staying power comes from staying around long enough in power or position. No youth leader is born with it. It comes with experience. What youth brings to the table is dynamism, a fresh outlook and a new way of thinking, which the nation needs today. Let us also not forget that India is a young nation, with the youth constituting the vast majority of its population. How can the old even begin to understand the aspirations of the young, leave alone fulfill them? The arguments you’ve put forth are the ones propounded by those who are just not willing to relinquish power.

Your positioning on Kashmir, Pakistan and the terror it exports immensely added to your national stature ....

I’m not clear what the question is here. But the stand I’ve taken on these issues is what I truly feel, from the bottom of the heart. Having witnessed these issues closely, as an ex-Army man and a leader of a border state like Punjab, which has borne the brunt of cross-border terrorism in its dark days, I can say with confidence that these issues go beyond partisan political affiliations. Every Indian relates to these issues in the same way, and that is what nationalism is all about.

The question is that why are you shy of taking up a major organisational position in the Congress at the Centre?

I have never been shy of taking up any responsibility, be it in the state or at the Centre, and would continue to do so, as long as I’m needed to. What I’ve said is that Punjab is going through difficult times in many ways and I want to do everything in my power to set it right, as I had promised to the people.