‘RSS doesn’t give us any directions’
ROAD AHEAD Gadkari says he has no plans to take up PM post in 2019; claims Opposition creating perception of overcentralisation in the functioning of the Narendra Modi govt
NEW DELHI: Former Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) president Nitin Gadkari handles critical infrastructure ministries and is widely perceived to be the most independent voice in the Narendra Modi government. He spoke to Moushumi Das Gupta and Prashant Jha on Prime Minister Modi’s style of functioning, the relationship between the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and the BJP, the differences between the BJP and its allies, the projects he has overseen, and why he does not see himself as a contender for the prime minister’s post in 2019. Edited excerpts:
Four years into the government, how do you see the PM’S leadership style? There has been criticism that decisionmaking is centralised.
This is not correct. We have cabinet meetings. Many a times, we have put forth views which are contrary to the PM’S view. But, from day one, a deliberate attempt has been made to create that perception about the PM (of a centralised style of functioning). It’s a case of image versus reality.
You are perceived to be one of the few autonomous ministers who can take decisions.
If it’s true that I can take decision, so can others. Only the PM has the power to appoint ministers. He has given them powers, but if we do not make use of our powers, then it’s a shortcoming on our part.
Have some ministers not been able to use the power bestowed on them?
I am not saying this. What I am saying is it is not the PM’S fault. Other ministers are also working. Social justice minister Thawar Chand Gehlot has resolved a host of issues to do with sites associated with (BR) Ambedkar’s life which the government has acquired and is developing; to encourage Dalits to enter business, Dharmendra Pradhan took out a special order for the Dalit Chamber of Commerce.
Every department has worked according to their plan. The difference is that my ministry makes roads. It shows. What will the health ministry or social justice or education ministry say? But the work that they do results in improvement of services.
The Opposition has alleged that this government has compromised institutions such as the election commission (EC), the judiciary, and the investigative agencies.
The Opposition is playing a dirty game. Which of our own person have we appointed in the EC? In Gujarat, didn’t the EC give an independent decision? Secretaries of government go to conduct elections. What have we done to the EC? In the judiciary, according to seniority, judges get appointed to the Supreme Court. Isn’t the Congress destroying the institution by talking about the Chief Justice of India (CJI) in the way they did? During Indira Gandhi’s tenure as PM, the CJI’S appointment superseded senior judges of the Supreme Court. Have we done anything like this? Because the judiciary is independent and impartial and because their decision is not in their favour, they are maligning us.
Do you think that in the last few months the government has been on the defensive, for instance, due to the Dalit protests?
We had a problem because of the political perception that was created following the Supreme Court’s decision. But if we had controlled the judiciary like the Opposition says, do you think we would have got into trouble because of the court’s order? It’s a judicial decision.
Blaming us for it is not fair. Tell me one scheme where we have kept out Dalits or minorities? We have not brought caste and religion in any of our social security schemes.
But the Congress’s capital is fear. They are trying to create fear in the minds of Dalit and Muslims.
They tell Muslims the Bhartiya Janta Party ( BJP) will send them back to Pakistan and demolish mosques; they tell Dalits that the BJP will rewrite Babasaheb’s constitution.
Their strategy is if you can’t convince, confuse.
But there persists a trust deficit with minorities. Muslim political representation in BJP is low.
We have ministers from the minority community at the Centre, in Uttar Pradesh, in the alliance in Jammu & Kashmir, and in other states. Our definition of secularism is justice for all — ‘sabka saath sabka vikas’. Here, the definition of secularism is appeasement of terrorists.
In the media, too, someone with a saffron robe is put on screen; he then says something; and then that is used that to attack us, even though we keep wondering who the person is. There are people who are unhappy that someone from the RSS-BJP is the PM. They have not been able to digest it. They opposed in the past, including framing false cases against innocent people. And they continue to oppose us using communalism and casteism.
The Opposition is seeking to unite against you. Are you worried?
Their unity is because of our strength. If we were weak, they would not have united. We will fight them. We are not here because of anyone’s mercy. All these people — leftists, antihindutva, anti-national forces — never spared us. We had to fight every inch of the way and will do so.
But your dynamic with allies is simultaneously deteriorating, for instance with the Shiv Sena.
The difference is not based on ideology. The Shiv Sena also talks of Hindutva, which is not different from our view. It’s power politics. In Maharashtra, the BJP got more seats than the Shiv Sena. We are stronger; we are fighting and winning more elections. They refuse to accept this fact and say we are the big brother. There are political rather than ideological reasons for this.
Is this because the party has changed, from being accommodative to arrogant?
Some people are trying to build this kind of an image but it is not the truth. We will try to take our friends along by election-time.
How do you see the new Congress under Rahul Gandhi?
He is a true Gandhian. It was Gandhi-ji’s dream that after Independence, Congress should be dissolved. Nehru, Indira, Rajiv, Sonia failed to do it. Now Rahul has taken it upon himself to fulfill Gandhi-ji’s dream (laughs).
He has recently said that if Congress becomes the singlelargest party then he will become the PM.
Do you really think it will happen? Will Samajwadi Party, Bahujan Samaj Party and Lalu’s party (RJD) support him? Do you see statements in his support? However, I think it is important for the democracy that there is a strong Opposition. They should do good work. Our best wishes are with them.
How do you see the relationship between the RSS and the BJP?
The Sangh is not political. It does not give any direction to the party. The Sangh is a little active on issues of national security, education, history, culture, but when it comes to politics, it does not tell us who should be given tickets... Their concern is that there be no threat to the nation, that the nation progresses. They don’t pressure us or give direction.
During NDA1, disagreements with the Sangh were obvious. There seems to be greater harmony now. What’s the difference?
I was in the state then. I don’t know. But for now, there is good coordination, communication and cooperation on ideological issues.
But when there are differences on issues like economic policy, how do you resolve it?
Even when there are two people, there is difference of opinion. That is the soul of democracy. When there are differences, it is followed with discussions. When discussion happens, the problem gets solved.
Is there a concern in the RSS that the BJP has become very personality oriented?
I don’t know about this.
How important is political power for Sangh?
I am not a spokesperson for the Sangh. I am a swayamsevak the Sangh is a part of my life’s convictions. Only the Sangh has a right to say what it thinks or does not think. Only they will be able to answer this.
You are known to set very ambitious targets but the delivery doesn’t match it.
What do you tell your child? That he has to pass on merit. But if he passes with 75% marks, you don’t say he has failed but that his performance is below target. Also, my ministry’s targets, except for roads, have been met. From 2km of roads getting constructed per day, I said I will take the target to 40 km a day. It was big target, but I managed to do 28 km a day. Next fiscal, we will cross 40 km. In the first year, by giving a 40 km target, I changed the mentality of the ministry. Targets are always big. And they are realised bit by bit. There is a difference between commitment and target. If I fail in my commitment you tell me then. I will achieve the targets by the time five years get over.
Will Ganga be clean by 2019?
Out of 189 projects, 47 have been completed. I have awarded 95% of the project. By March 2019, approximately 70-80% of the Ganga will be cleaned. My target is to get the entire Ganga cleaned but maybe we will not be able to achieve this.
Are you a contender for the PM’S post in 2019?
Not at all. I have got way more than my capabilities and standing. Our party will win and Narendra bhai will become the PM.
There is a buzz that if BJP falls short of a majority, you could be the compromise PM candidate.
I don’t know if the people who say this are my friends or enemies. It’s not right to say such things. I have never had any ambition in life. I have not given my biodata to anyone. I did not put a garland around anybody’s neck. I have never asked anyone for anything. I am an ordinary person, a small worker.
While taking care of my family, I want to do whatever is possible honestly for the country. I have done work worth ₹10 lakh crore, but not taken a penny from a contractor. I think that politics is an instrument of socio-economic reform... I am neither dreaming of becoming PM nor is it in my mind.