Beingsecular doesnot meanbeingantiHindu
because the revival of the party took a back seat and survival of the leader took the front seat.
Has Congress been able to get out of the existential crisis you once referred to?
Our challenge is to convert the growing disenchantment with Modi into growing enchantment with Congress. It happened in a small way in Rajasthan, in a bigger way in Gujarat. We will hold on to Karnataka. Chhattisgarh has been a 1-2 percent margin state. In Rajasthan, we have to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. In Madhya Pradesh, too, there is huge anti-incumbency.
You do well with strong leaders. In Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, you face a dilemma over the leadership.
It is more important to maintain party unity, rather than get involved in who will be the chief minister. The party has to win. In Karnataka, yes we have a strong local leader, but we also have a strong party organisation. The party structure, ideology, outreach, communication, is more important.
You led the rural development ministry. How do you judge the government’s track record?
Demonetisation had a horrendous impact on the economy. It led to substantial unemployment, huge dislocation. It was a bad idea, implemented even more badly. GST (goods and services tax) was a good idea, implemented arbitrarily. Modi came to power on the grounds he was an effective economic manager — that’s where many people are disappointed. We knew he would be a divisive political figure, and he has not disappointed us on that. He has squeezed MSPs (minimum support prices), rural spending, rural wages. There are issues of land, forest rights. It is not just agriculture. And it is not just rural economy. There is tax terrorism. People are not speaking because of an atmosphere of fear.
UPA focused on a rights framework. But this government has also focused on welfare — toilets, housing, health, banking.
We launched it; they gave it new names and took it forward. We gave bureaucratic names like Basic Savings Bank Deposit Account. Modi converted it into Jan Dhan. Who remembers BSBDA? He rediscovered rural India last year. Will that help electorally? It didn’t help him much in Gujarat, Rajasthan and UP. Modi is now facing 3 Ds - disappointment, disenchantment and disillusionment.
So what do you think the BJP will bank on in the elections?
They have only one card — the P card: polarisation.
But you are playing Hindu politics too with temple hopping.
That’s an intellectually lazy argument. Mrs Gandhi always said we have to fight communalism of all kinds; that secularism is not just majority-minority but that the majority of people across religions want to live in peace while a minority section in each religion wants to spread prejudice. On 12 January, 1999, on Swami Vivekananda’s birth anniversary, Mrs Gandhi spoke at the Ramakrishna Mission and said India is secular largely because of the traditions and legacy of Hinduism. What Rahul is doing is not new.
Congress appears defensive on secularism.
You know how the term UPA was coined. It was initially to be called United Secular Alliance, which we ruled out because the acronym would be USA; then we thought of Progressive Secular Alliance. Karunanidhi, the arch-atheist, then said something at a meeting — ‘don’t use the word secular since, in Tamil, it translates into irreligious’. We then thought of UPA. So what we have to convince the people about is that India is multi-religious; there is a place for all religions; but as far as the Indian state is concerned, it should have nothing to do with religion. That is secularism. I am more of a practising Hindu than 90% of the BJP guys. Because we are secular does not mean we are anti-Hindu.
Many argue that the notice for a motion to remove the Chief Justice was too drastic.
This was not sudden but preceded by months of deliberation. Weighing the pros and cons carefully, a considered decision to go ahead was taken in order to strengthen the judiciary to which we are irrevocably committed -- vastly more so than Modi and his colleagues. It was an unprecedented step, but the situation was truly extraordinary... it was a very sad moment and I can tell you the step was taken with a very heavy heart. I don’ think anybody wanted to but the five issues left us with no choice.
But will this undermine institutions? Can a disagreement with a judicial verdict lead to a set of MPs taking such a step?
The move has nothing to do with judicial verdicts. All five grounds for impeachment have to do with personal integrity. We believe what SC decides is final, even if at times we may not agree with it. Final, but not infallible, as a legal scholar wrote.
Some believe you have done this to prevent him from delivering the verdict in the Ram Janmabhoomi case.
Absolutely bogus.