‘As a historian, I can tell you that human stupidity has been one of the most powerful forces in history and is still a very powerful force’
Excerpts from an interaction with moderator and Group Editorial Director (Broadcast & New Media) of the India Today Group, Kalli Purie
Q. In a world where so many of us are fighting over micro identities, how do you think we can encourage a loyalty to humankind?
A. I am a historian, so one of the things I can suggest is to start teaching in school the history of humankind, not just the history of your nation or your culture or your religion. If a child from an early age gets used to thinking about everything in terms of what happened to “my nation”, then it’s not a big surprise that when this child grows up, he or she will still think about the world all the time in terms of “my nation”.
Q. Let’s say, you have access to biotech and intelligent design. What are the few things you’ll augment in yourself?
A. The key issue is that we just don’t understand ourselves well enough to answer this question in a responsible way. I can have all kinds of fantasies about changing my body and upgrading my brain, but we don’t really understand what the consequences will be. In the past, humans had the ability to manipulate the world outside them, but they didn’t
understand the complexity of the ecological system, so all the changes caused ecological collapse. We might do the same thing inside if we gain the ability to manipulate our bodies, our brains, our emotions, our minds. But all these changes might result in an internal ecological collapse. So, my hope for myself is first to understand my inner world before I start manipulating and upgrading myself.
Q. Is it true that you think that some of the most famous stories, like those from the Bible, are the precursors of fake news?
A. Yes, today with all the talk about fake news, some fake news lasts forever. If a thousand people believe it for one month, it’s fake news. If millions of people believe it for a thousand years, that’s not fake news, that’s the truth or the religious truth. I’m not saying that all religions or religious text are fables. There is sometimes a lot of truth, and a lot of deep wisdom in some of these texts and stories. But we need to be able to clearly distinguish reality from fiction. This is something we do in physics and medicine, but when it comes to history, a lot of people, and especially a lot of politicians, don’t want to distinguish reality from fiction.
Q. I am going to take you down a contentious issue. One of our most famous mythologies, the Ramayana, talks about a bridge between India and Sri Lanka. Now, apparently, the new god of modern times, Google, claims that it does exist. So, is the Ramayana story real? A. It doesn’t mean that. One true fact doesn’t mean that everything is true. If I take the Bible, for example, there are many incidents mentioned in the Bible for which we have very strong historical and archaeological evidence today. The Bible says that the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem. We have very strong evidence that this is true. But for events in the Garden of Eden, Eve and the serpent and all that, that’s a bit more difficult to believe.
Q. You said that we will be able to hack into a human. What exactly did you mean?
A. Humans have a biochemical operating system. Our desires, decisions, feelings are not the result of free will or metaphysical spirit, but of biochemical processes in the body and the brain. Until recently, we didn’t have enough knowledge. But now we’re gaining the biological understanding and computing power necessary to hack human beings.
People talk a lot about hacking computers, smartphones and bank accounts, but actually the really important thing that is happening now is, we are hacking human beings, deciphering how the body and the brain work, how people make decisions. Very soon, governments and corporations might be in a position to understand what’s happening inside us better than we do. They can manipulate us, control us, and we won’t even realise it. Until today, governments could control your external activities, where you go, what you read, what you say. Very soon, they will be able to understand what is happening inside. If we are not careful, this will lead to the creation of digital dictatorship, of total surveillance regimes in which resistance is absolutely impossible, because if you just think about resisting, they know. Just think about a place like North Korea, in 20 or 50 years, people may have to wear biometric bracelets that will monitor blood pressure, brain activity all the time. If you listen to a speech by Kim Jong-un and the bracelet shows signs of anger in you, it will be the end of you.
Q. There has been a lot of debate around biometric data in India because we now have a new ID card, the Aadhaar card, which takes our fingerprints and iris scans. It’s also linked to our mobile phone, bank account, voter card, PAN card etc. And it’s mandatory. So, most of us had to succumb to it. Is this the first step towards digital dictatorship? A. Maybe yes, maybe no. No technology is deterministic, every technology has both positive and negative potential. It would be foolish to give up all the enormous positive potential of biotechnology just because of the negative scenario. Just as it would have been foolish to give up the inventions of previous ages, because they could support a dictatorship. Think about the radio. In Nazi Germany, radio was the main propaganda tool of the regime. Every day, Hitler or someone from High Command would go on the radio and give speeches to millions of Germans. This is how they were brainwashed. Does this mean that radio is bad and we should destroy all radio sets? No, you can use radio for lot of good. It’s the same with biotechnology. I don’t want people to become scared of the technology and to just think that they can stop it or abolish it. It won’t happen. The key is to understand that we have political options regarding each technology. We should be aware of all the possibilities and, hopefully, make the right choice.
In North Korea, people may soon have to wear biometric bracelets. Listen to Kim Jongun’s speech, and the bracelet shows anger in you, and it’ll be the end of you If a thousand people believe it for one month, it’s fake news. If millions of people believe it for a thousand years, that’s religious truth”