‘WE WILL NOT LET THE BJP COME BACK’

The India Today Conclave 2018 discovered a Sonia Gandhi never seen on public platform—candid, bold and outspoken. She took questions with grace, admitted the vulnerabilities of the Congress and launched a scathing attack on her opponents. Excerpts from he

Q. You have given up presidency of the Congress party. How do you feel? Are you relieved, overjoyed, nervous? A. I am actually relieved. I have much more time to do things I could never do before—to read, watch a movie. I have a lot of work at home. I am trying to accessorise and digitise old papers belonging to my husband and mother-in-law. There are letters that my mother-in-law used to write to her son Rajiv when he was in school, and his replies.

Q. Are you going to stay out of politics? You’re hosting a dinner on March 13, inviting several political party leaders. Is this an attempt to create a third front?

A. I am chairperson of the UPA. With Rahul and other senior leaders of the (Congress) party, I do meet leaders of like-minded parties to see if we can work together. We have worked together in the past.

Q. Are you hopeful that these parties who fought with each other quite bitterly can actually get together because they see the BJP as a big colossus, which can’t be beaten by any party on its own?

A. It is difficult for all the parties, including ours, because while we can get together at a national level on some issues or legislations, we are opponents at the ground level. So, there is a lot of pressure from every party. It is a difficult task. But if all of us think of the larger picture and care for the country, we should sync local differences.

Q. Is Rahul Gandhi’s style of management different from yours? Are there any disagreements you have with him on particular issues?

A. Every person and every leader of a party has his or her style of working. So, he has his style, I had my style.

Q. What’s the difference?

A. No difference, because the Congress party has certain policies and believes in certain ways. He has been keen to revitalise the party with younger people, but we have always pulled him back. It’s not that he wants to do away with elders, but he wants to have a balance of younger people and seniors. India is a very young country. It’s not going to be an easy task, but I am sure he will be able to manage.

Q. In 2004, the Congress ruled 13 states and the BJP only six. Today, the BJP is in 21 and Congress is in four. The BJP, of course, calls it ‘Congress-mukt Bharat’. What went wrong?

A. We were in government for two terms. There was a certain amount of anti-incumbency. People, perhaps, felt they wanted a new person. There were other issues. We were, in a way, out-marketed because we couldn’t really compete with the BJP that went into elections under Mr Modi.

Q. What are the lessons you’ve learnt from the last election in 2014? What are the chances of the Congress party in 2019?

A. At the organisational level, our party has to really develop a new style of connecting with the people. We have to also look at the way we project our programmes, our policies.

Q. Corruption was the main issue in 2014. Would you agree with that?

A. Yes, that was an issue, but it was highly exaggerated. In the case of 2G, for instance, you must have seen what happened recently. The CAG then came out with some humongous sum of money. How come the person who was in charge of that institution was given a very cushy job right after? The same CAG found misuse of funds amounting to Rs 20,000 crore in the Oil and Natural Gas Corporation by the Gujarat government. Nobody is talking about it now. We tried to take it up in Parliament, but we were not allowed to speak. That is why, unfortunately, we have to start shouting and making a nuisance of ourselves because every time there is an important issue that we want to discuss, they find a way of scuttling it.

Q. More often, we see Congress MPs banging the tables and shouting. Recently, the prime minister was not allowed to speak. Do you approve of this?

A. I agree with you, but there is a reason for it. Whenever we have a genuine issue that we want to discuss and we follow the procedure, we are just sidelined; we are not allowed to raise the issue.

Q. When the prime minister was trying to speak just after the budget, he was not allowed to speak.

A. He spoke, but there was noise from the opposition side. When our leader of the party in Parliament was trying to speak the previous day, the treasury benches did not allow him to speak. They shouted and called him names.

Q. How’s this going to be fixed? Politics seems to have become very acrimonious.

A. It cannot be fixed with the way the present government is running Parliament. It’s impossible because they are not willing to allow us to speak. I am aware that people at large are constantly angry with the Congress because they feel we are shouting. We are making noise, but there is a very serious reason for it. Parliamentary rules are not being followed.

Q. What will be the main issue in the 2019 general elec- tions? What would you like to project as the main issue? Do you think PM Modi has eliminated corruption? A. The main issue with the BJP is that they made fantastic promises. But what is being implemented? They said they would give jobs and Rs 15 lakh in bank accounts. I’m confident the BJP’s slogan of ‘Achhe Din’ will turn into ‘India Shining’, which brought us victory in 2004.

Q. What would be your earnest advice to Prime Minister Modi, if you were to advise him?

A. But do they ask for advice? I don’t think so. I wouldn’t dare advise him. I am sure he has people around him who probably advise him.

Q. How do you react when Rahul Gandhi is attacked personally? Recently, he was criticised for going to see his grandmother just before the results of elections in three Northeast states were declared.

A. He went to see his grandmother but he was done with electioneering.

During that gap post-electioneering, while you wait for the results, he went for three days.

Q. Do you see that as an issue because the BJP leadership seems to be thinking, breathing and living politics 24x7? Rahul is inclined to take breaks.

A. No, I don’t see that as an issue at all. There are plenty of people in our party who take off for holidays. You never hear about it.

Q. Do you think the Congress party will survive without a Gandhi at its helm? A. Why not? In the future, there may well be.

Q. So, you don’t think you are the only glue for the Congress party?

A. This is a tough question. There are many Congressmen out here, you can ask them.

Q. Why didn’t you become the prime minister?

A. Because I thought Dr Manmohan Singh would be a better prime minister.

Q. Tell us about your political and economic philosophy. A. Growth is important. At the same time, it’s as important to see to it that those who are less privileged also get support. We can’t have just one island of very wealthy people and then a huge number of poor people because that leads to social unrest.

Q. Do you believe in minimum government? That the government should play a less intrusive role in people’s lives. A. I believe in a balanced government. I don’t believe in minimum or maximum. Balance is always the best way.

Q. If you were to come to power in 2019, what are the things you would do, which you didn’t do in the 10 years you were in power?

A. We offered the people a great deal during the UPA government. It is just that the opposition was much better at their communication and we did not communicate enough about all the good work that was done.

Q. Indira Gandhi had ‘Garibi Hatao’, the Vajpayee government had ‘India Shining’, the Modi government had ‘Achhe Din’. What’s your 2019 slogan?

A. I’m not too fond of slogans, empty promises and jumlas. If you go into an election, you don’t lie to people and tell them that you are going to do things that you will never be able to implement.

Q. During the Gujarat election campaign, Rahul Gandhi visited a lot of temples in the state. We are now looking at something called soft Hindutva from the Congress. Is this a deliberate effort by the party to change its image so that the BJP cannot monopolise this whole Hindutva movement?

A. The BJP has managed to convince people that the Congress is a Muslim party. In my party, a majority of the leaders are Hindu. We have always been to temples. Travelling with Rajiv, we used to visit one major temple wherever we went, but never made a show of it. Rahul also visited temples in the past. But because we have been pushed into a corner, rather than going to a temple quietly, a little more of public focus has been put on that.

Q. What if the BJP or NDA comes back to power in 2019?

A. No, we are going to come back; we are not going to let them come back.

I a believe balanced in government. I don’t believe in minimum or maximum I’m confident the BJP’s slogan of ‘Achhe Din’ will turn into ‘India Shining’, which brought us victory in 2004 Growth is important. But it’s as important to see to it that those who are less privileged also get support”