‘When I am asking for votes, I can’t do dadagiri’

INTERVIEW: AMIT SHAH

How will UP impact the Central government?

In UP, once a non-corrupt government is formed, we will see that the government works tirelessly to remove poverty in UP and that would help India only. Our victory in UP will be a great boon to Indian growth.

That also means if you lose UP election, it will have an impact, too.

I don’t think at all that we will lose in UP. And how can it get worsethanwhatitisnow?weare not in power in the state today.

In UP, since last June, you are spreading out the Shatranj (chess board.)

It’s not fine to use phrase, spreading shatranj. I was working hard to strengthen my organisation in UP.

What is this strategy that has ended up pitting a Prime Minister against a Chief Minister?

Door, door tak (far and wide)...it’s not PM versus CM. You may find it so because you have seen a PM for 10 years whose rallies people didn’t throng to. That’s why you are unable to digest the fact of a PM who is helping in campaigning in a state election. This country has seen many PMS. From Jawaharlal Nehru to Indira Gandhi to Atalji. They took their party to the people. Election is festival of democracy. It is the responsibility of the PM to talk to people. And why not? He is our party’s supreme leader. (sarvochch neta)

But the PM’S office carries a certain dignity. He has national security, diplomacy and defence to look at. Here PM goes to Barabanki and Lakhimpur Kheri to criticise a Chief Minister.

Those national areas are being handled fine. Look, any Prime Minister who works for 7-8 hours, he can’t do this. The Prime Minister who works for 21 hours daily — he can manage, both very well. PM Modi is balancing both. It is his duty to see that UP gets good governance and faster development.

So it means the Prime Minister will always remain in campaign mode?

It is the PM’S prime duty to keep going back to people and be with them. With the help of one party, he becomes a PM. Government is of one party. And PM is the topmost leader of that party. That’s why he should campaign if and when needed.

Last year, in an event at Ashoka hotel, you told the media that BJP’S competition in UP is with Samajwadi Party. Last week in Lucknow, you were talking of a fight with BSP in first few phases. This has created confusion in your cadre.

There is no confusion. Rajniti prawahi hoti hai. (Politics is a dynamic process). The day SP gave away its 103 seats to Congress, it got weak. The Congress doesn’t have cadre in those seats. SP workers are not accepting or working for Congress candidates. So the ground situation has changed. By the way, even last year, I said that all over we have fight with SP but in western UP, we are in fight with BSP.

Who is your closest competitor now?

Now, SP has caved in so we are much ahead of both of them. Their fight is for second and third position.

So BSP is your closest competitor? Difficult to assess but in first and second phases we were fighting BSP.

You won big in 2014 which must have taken care of many insecurities. Your party gave a slogan like sab ka saath, sab ka vikas. But still not one ticket to a Muslim leader. Why?

We don’t see voters as Hindus and Muslims. I don’t believe in dividing people into categories.

But you said all castes and communities should be wellrepresented in the power setup. There is no Muslim representative in Lok Sabha from UP.

It is people who elect our representatives. The Sp-congress alliance and the BSP have given a disproportionate number of tickets to Muslims. When you talk of polarisation, should you not be asking them why they have given disproportionate representation to a community?

We saw in many rallies that on the issue of slaughterhouses, BJP gets a strong response. Doesn’t raising an issue like this come with a cost? Of the 1623 registered slaughter-houses, many are registered in Maharashtra. You know that the joboriented leather industry is inter-connected with trade in animal hide. What kind of an economic loss will shutting down slaughter-houses create?

Not true. There won’t be any economic loss. By saving animals, we will produce more milk and dairy products. Animals do die in the natural process. Then, their hide is useful. Why are you not thinking of the situation in drought? In the Ganga and Yamunariverbeds,iffarmershave two animals, he can survive difficult days. They won’t die of hunger if animals are at home. In UP, lots of misery is due to the fact thatmilk-producinganimalshave been slaughtered mercilessly.

So, is this promise economic wisdom or religious sentiment?

What is religious about it? The owners of mechanical slaughter houses are forcibly taking animals to keep running their factories. They steal animals. This is a purely economic issue linked to farmers.

You are 51 years old. You got success quite early in life. But your approach to politics is usually very conservative. A relatively young president of the party releases a manifesto which talks about an “antiromeo squad.”

I have a request for you. Please go to Meerut. Stay there for one year in Meerut Cant area. After a year, I will see how modern you have remained. Parents in many UP cities keep flats on rent in Delhi at un-affordable cost and suffer so much. This is a real lawand-order problem. Don’t see it otherwise. What did SP government do? Why no such squad was formed to curb the menace? Security is the responsibility of government. You can’t give a free hand to protect a particular vote bank. This can’t go on.

You mean Muslim vote bank?

It’s not Hindu-muslim issue. Anti-romeo squad is for those who trouble young girls. Whoever they may be.

Once again, you are fighting elections using Modi’s image.

It’s not like that. The election is fought on many issues. But Modi is our topmost leader. The BJP is gaining in a big way from his work, from the BJP government and from people’s strong feelings for Modi.

This time, after tickets were distributed, the mood within the party changed. Many people were dissatisfied.

When they see the party is winning, there will be more heartburn over not getting tickets. There was resentment for two to three days because for each seat there were 35 to 70 applicants and only one was given a ticket. But now chanting Bharat Mata ki Jai, our cadres and leaders have plunged into the campaign.

Your audio talking to Jat community leaders went viral. You sounded low. Have Jats deserted BJP?

Wait for the result. As for my tone, let me explain. When I am asking for votes, I can’t do dadagiri. Being president of the political party, I beg for votes from anybody and everybody and you have to request softly. I was talking of incorrect propaganda against BJP because Haryana’s Jat agitation is represented wrongly among Jats of Western UP.

When you fly across UP, what issue dominates your mind?

UP is full of infinite possibilities.sheelaji,icomefromthestate where water level has gone down 1200 feet. Here you get water if you dig 50 feet. Here I see with wonder hundreds of kilometres of fertile land. I believe, in this world, UP’S youth is the brightest lot. We had BIMARU states. Now, only U of BIMARU is lagging behind. If BJP gets UP, we will show 10% actual growth in first five years. That’s our promise.

Some people have observed that in Bihar you talked about “firecrackers in Pakistan” and all that. But this time your speeches are more restrained. The charge is that BJP is going for covert Hindutva.

I don’t do politics covertly. I do it with guts. (danke ki chot per karta hun.) My party doesn’t have any policy that needs to be kept secret. From 1950 to 2016, we have same policy and same direction.

In Western UP you raised certain issues that led to polarisation.

We never did it. If we speak about law and order, you make it communal.

You are talking of riots.

In UP, 500 riots happened in the last five years and should we not utter a word? The riots are strictly law and order issue. It’s not a communal issue.

If you are worried about law and order and talk of Muzaffarnagar riots, in the same breath, you need to talk with sensitivity about those displaced Muslims who are living a life of misery in relief camps.

See, this is my point. I haven’t talked about even Hindus. I am not talking about Hindus and Muslims. I am talking about rioters. In no speech, I have uttered the word Hindu or Muslims. I talk of dangai (rioters). I say that we should have a government that can stop riots.

In UP, you had a suitable CM candidate in Rajnath Singh. He is the second-most powerful man in the government. If he is fit to be Home Minister, surely he can be a good CM candidate. He is a former CM, too.

This is the privilege of the party’s parliamentary board. Journalists should give space to us.

Is he unwilling or the party doesn’t want him?

Don’t get into this issue. As soon as we win UP, our legislative board and parliamentary party will jointly select a BJP CM.

Demonetisation has created havoc in the society. The queues outside the ATMS have made you unpopular.

Wait a minute, please. I didn’t know you will be here, right? (Jagdishpur, near Amethi) Let me take out our latest confidential survey done for Phase 3. Yesterday, we asked voters how dotheyperceivenarendramodi’s important work. We asked them to prioritise. In this survey, 26% people said demonetisation is a big achievement and 31% appreciatedujjwalagasproject.inevery survey, we get support for Notebandi. Aap log hawa main hain. On TV you see footage outside banks and pass judgment. We work on the ground. In the first phase, 32% gave us thumbs up for notebandi. I want Opposition parties to make demonetisation election issue.

Some poor people are daydreaming that they will get some reward by supporting notebandi. The poor are distressed.

Nobody can fool the poor of India. He knows well what’s good forhim.thereisnoendtothisdiscussion. When results will come, you will know that UP people have supported notebandi.

In New Delhi, there is debate about the expanding power of BJP. Just in case BJP wins UP, then too much power can make any government arrogant. Look at what’s happening in Mumbai. Your treatment of Shiv Sena is a case study.

We have fought elections separately four times before. We have different assessments of our respective strengths. That’s the fundamental issue. We are not arrogant and don’t want to be. We (Sena and BJP) are together in the government and we will remain together. Thackeray is criticising us because it’s election time. BJP leaders are also talking against Sena.

In Una, Dalit atrocities happened; before that, the Rohith Vemula case hit the BJP’S image because you were questioning his caste. Will these not impact UP?

After UP results, come and count votes for the BJP in booths of Dalit areas.

Even during the Modi wave in 2014, the BSP got 19% of votes.

2014 se is baar hamari laher bahut badi hai. (This time, the wave in favour of BJP is stronger than it was in 2014).