‘The fire at Primark is the biggest crisis to hit Belfast since the Troubles... and it also could be catastrophic for whole economy’
Northern Ireland’s retail champion Glyn Roberts voices his frustration at the lack of government here, and appeals directly to shoppers to give their support to struggling city centre traders
Over 1,000 jobs which could be lost, two dozen businesses at risk of collapse within the next few weeks, a potentially catastrophic situation for Belfast city centre and the wider Northern Ireland economy — and no ministers in place to take the crucial decisions needed. As businesses continue to reel from the impact of the devastating Primark fire, Glyn Roberts, chief executive of Retail NI, paints a bleak picture of the crisis.
Since 2008 he has been CEO of the organisation representing independent retailers. Before that he spent seven years with the Federation of Small Businesses. He’s worked in PR and for the charity Cancer Focus, was chairman of Colleges NI from 2014-17 and vice-chair of the NI Stronger In Europe campaign, which opposed Brexit.
He’s a graduate of the Ulster University and Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government Leaders for Tomorrow Programme (2008) and the US State Department International Leadership Programme (2007). Here he talks about Brexit, turning our town and city centres into “fun” places, and in a scathing summing up of how traders feel let down by their politicians, says: “My worry is that more and more of our members now regard Stormont as part of the problem rather than part of the solution.” Q As head of Retail NI the most pressing concern facing you and your members right now has to be dealing with the Primark fire aftermath. What’s the priority there?
A In the short-term we need to get decisions about what’s happening to the building. We need to get the cordon lifted as soon as it is practical and safe to do so. I’m very conscious of the traders particularly in Castle Street, fantastic independent retailers who have been there for generations. They are really, really suffering. Their businesses in many respects have been built from footfall from Primark, so what we’ve been trying to do in meetings is to try and get them rates relief, try and get them help.
There are over 1,000 jobs at risk with this situation. There are maybe two dozen businesses that could fall in the next few weeks. And if we have that domino effect that will be catastrophic for our city centre. And we shouldn’t forget, Belfast city centre isn’t just another town centre. It’s a regional economic driver for Northern Ireland. If it suffers then our economy as a whole suffers.
We’re coming into Christmas now and that’s the harvest time for retail and hospitality. Our worry is that people’s shopping habits will change. They’ll go to the big out-of-town guys, they’ll steer clear of Belfast city centre. We’ve got to stop that. We’re working very hard with our colleagues in Belfast Chamber and Hospitality Ulster and the City Council to try and turn this situation around.
Long-term, we do need a city rejuvenation fund. That’s crucial because there’s a lot of damage we need to repair. So the short-term objective is getting the cordon lifted and making sure there’s help for those traders in Castle Street, and indeed the businesses inside the cordon as well who can’t open, who have lost their income. As has been said already, the Primark fire is the biggest crisis to hit Belfast city centre since the Troubles and I can’t emphasise enough how potentially catastrophic this situation is for the city and for the Northern Ireland economy.
And the situation is made even more difficult by the fact of not having ministers in place. During the flag protests we set up the Backing Belfast campaign but we had ministers in place then who were able to take decisions, were able to get us funding. This time it’s very, very difficult because civil servants aren’t ministers and they’re put in a position they shouldn’t have to be in, quite frankly. People feel very let down by their politicians.
Q And angry? A Yes. The traders are very angry. I’ve sat in meetings and, you know, my heart goes out to them. It’s people’s livelihoods. They’ve put their life and soul into this.
As somebody who’s worked in a support role for small businesses for the last 18 years, I know exactly what they’re going through. They’ve put their lives’ work into a business and now fear seeing it fall in front of their very eyes. In a lot of those businesses their staff are almost like family. It’s absolutely heartbreaking to hear some of the stories and to listen to some of the traders who are going through hell.
We need to get the immediate support to those traders. So I’d also appeal to the community as a whole. I think it’s your civic duty to support those traders in Belfast city centre, particularly the guys in Castle Street. It’s in nobody’s interest to see Belfast city centre, our primary retail core of Belfast city centre, a dereliction site. I’m appealing to shoppers: get in and support those traders as we come up to Christmas. If you don’t, we will lose those businesses.
Q Do you think the building may have to be demolished?
A It’s certainly an option, yeah. I think the priority has to be people’s jobs and businesses.
Q You come originally from Belfast yourself ?
A Yes. I’m born and bred in east Belfast from what was very much a working class family. I went to Elmgrove Primary, spectacularly failed my 11-plus, then went to Orangefield and left school at 16. I suppose my biggest memory from that is just how unfair the 11-plus is and how many people I went to school with who were effectively thrown on the scrapheap at 11. It still annoys me to this day that so many capable people weren’t able to realise their potential because they were written off at 11.
The other memory I have is of the careers advice I got at 16, where my choices were the Army, the youth training scheme or the shipyard. We weren’t given the option of doing A-levels. But actually that spurred me on. That, and having great parents who were encour- aging me and being very supportive. My dad John was in the Army. He’s from north Wales originally. My mum Sally worked for years for a small independent retailer on the Newtownards Road called Wilson’s, now sadly gone.
I grew up in quite a big household with my granny and grandad, mum and dad and my brother Mark. It was a very happy childhood. The most important thing that I’ve had in life is great family, great parents who supported me every step of the way. But looking back I still remember when I said to a careers teacher: “I want to do A-levels. I want to go to university.” I remember the way they looked at me...
QBut you did go on to do A-levels?
A Yes. I did my A-levels at Castlereagh College and I got into university. Because of my experience I’ve always been a big champion of further education. I was chair of Colleges NI, which represents the six FE colleges, and I know the fantastic job they do. They help people from my background realise their potential, people who maybe weren’t given the best deal when it comes to schooling. I think in many respects our six further education colleges are our unsung heroes for the job they do supporting the economy and also helping the people who have maybe fallen out of the school system. They help them get back on track and I think they do a fantastic job.
I think things have changed for the better over the years in that young people today know that universities aren’t the be-all and end-all. But looking back at the guys I went to school with, they deserved better. That is why I am passionately opposed to selection at 11. That belongs to the past, not the future. Throughout my 11 years at Retail NI we’ve been pushing the skills agenda front and centre, but we’re never going to realise our full potential unless we get the right investment in skills and training. And that means supporting our six colleges, supporting our two universities and making sure we have 21st century skills and training that’s really going to move our economy forward. I really don’t think we have that yet. But above all we need to see government back. We need to see ministers taking the right decisions and moving our whole education system forward.
QWhich university did you go to?
A I studied politics and history at the then University of Ulster. My first job after I graduated, I ran a community work programme, a scheme in west Belfast for the long-term unemployed. Nearly all of the trainees that I was responsible for got into full-time work. It was a great scheme and something I think should be re-examined because we still obviously have almost inter-generational unemployment in some areas. I enjoyed that job. As someone who was born and raised in east Belfast, going to a job every day on the Falls Road and working in that community never fazed me and never fazed the people I was working with either. And the IRA ceasefire had broken down at that point — this was about 1996/97.
After that job I had a really good position with the Ulster Cancer Founda-
tion, now called Cancer Focus. That was again a fantastic job.
Q You worked in PR for a year and then as head of Press with the Federation of Small Businesses, and for the last 11 years you’ve been head of Retail NI. How would you describe your role? A I look across the last 18 years and it’s an absolute privilege to work with Northern Ireland’s small businesses and so many dynamic entrepreneurs. In many respects they’re very brave people. I’m in a job where I know I’m getting a salary at the end of the month. I’m working with small businesses and independent retailers who at times don’t know they’re getting a salary at the end of the month. They’re putting their all into establishing and starting their business.
I think entrepreneurs are amazing people because they are taking such a risk. Northern Ireland has world class small businesses. I’m very passionate about independent retail. I absolutely love my job.
Q What are the main challenges facing small independent traders?
A I spent a large part of the summer going round speaking to our members in all parts of Northern Ireland and the one thing that came back time and time again was the burden of business rates. That is the number one issue that we need to fix. We have an antiquated system of business rates that needs radical reform. We’ve put forward a number of ideas about how we could get a much fairer system and how we get extended rates relief.
Business rates is the key issue, but having said that we’ve also got big challenges around infrastructure. We have big lobbies behind the City Deals for Belfast and Derry but I think a lot of our members in rural towns, midsized towns, feel left behind. We also need deals for those small towns as well. We need to invest in their infrastructure.
One of the things I say to local councils and politicians is that we need a proper retail strategy about how we produce the next generation of independent retail entrepreneurs. For instance, in Belfast city centre — and obviously with the Primark situation it’s very challenging — I’d like to see many more independent retailers offering something that little bit different to the big names. The multinational retailers obviously have a big part to play. I think the future for our towns and cities is very much a partnership between retail and hospitality, what I call the Ballyhackamore factor, where you’ve got a really good example of an area of Belfast where you’ve got retail, hospitality, churches, community groups all working together to produce, if you like, a high street which is fantastic and has a zero vacancy rate.
Q Shoppers coming into the city feel put off, though, because of problems like parking...
A We have been to the fore in pointing out that at times the ‘red coats’ can be a bit over-zealous in terms of the amount of tickets that are handed out. Parking is crucial. How you get cities and town centres right is through policy framework, making sure you have the right policy on rates, on transport, on infrastructure, on car parking, on all of those things. The 21st century town centre is all about putting the social into shopping; providing the shopper with the experience that makes them want to come back.
If you’re pushing a trolley around some big box out of town, there’s no fun in that. But, again, look at some place like Ballyhackamore where you’ve got a great range of restaurants and bars and a great range of retailers as well — that should be the model.
In Retail NI we’ve forged a very effective partnership with Hospitality Ulster because in many respects retail and hospitality are two sides of the same coin. We stand or fall together.
We’ve also got a great partnership with Manufacturing NI. Our three organisations are doing more and more joint work. We recently launched a New Deal for Northern Ireland at Westminster and the event was the biggest ever Northern Ireland event on the terrace at the House of Commons. We were really selling Northern Ireland, saying: “Look, we’ve got a really difficult political situation but we’re still open for business. We still have a good story to tell.” Yeah, we’re also facing challenges with Brexit. But we’re all about bringing politicians solutions not about bringing them problems.
Q Do you think politicians are doing enough?
A I really can’t fault Belfast City Council. We’re working really extensively with them right now in relation to the Primark aftermath. We engage with all 11 councils. There are some councils that are more effective than others. But I think that these new 11 councils still have some bedding in time. But again, what’s been highlighted when we’ve met with the Belfast Chamber and Hospitality Ulster and with the head of the Civil Service and a number of permanent secretaries, is that not having a government in place, not having a minister in place, makes dealing with the type of situation we have with Primark so much more difficult. The very fact we don’t have ministers in place, that we have the world record for the longest ever any place has gone without government, that makes us an international laughing stock. I think there is a determination in the business community to say: “Look, we’ve got to push forward. We’ve got to keep still selling Northern Ireland.” My worry is that more and more of our members now regard Stormont as part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
Q You’ve said traders feel let down by our politicians...
A We’ve got huge challenges around Brexit, huge challenges around business rates and now Primark, but we don’t have a government in place with ministers making the key strategic decisions. We just cannot continue on with no government. Don’t get me wrong, I think that Stormont wasn’t perfect, but it is infinitely better having local ministers in place who can make the decisions rather than having civil servants who, in a very difficult situation, are trying to keep the show on the road. It is very frustrating for us as an organisation that wants to get things done. The biggest frustration I have is who do I talk to to get things done? The Secretary of State rightly says: “This is a devolved matter.” But we don’t have devolution in place, we don’t have an Executive in place.
Q Do you think Northern Ireland can meet the challenges of Brexit?
A I was vice-chair of the Remain campaign and campaigned very strongly for that. But I do think as we approach Brexit we have to be all about, not borders, but bridges — how we build the broader vision of where Northern Ireland needs to be post-Brexit in 20 years’ time. The biggest challenge is, what’s the long-term future of our economy?
It struck me during the 20th anniversary celebrations of the Good Friday Agreement that we’re all looking back to 1998. Okay, that’s important, but the real date we should be looking at is 2038. As we approach Brexit we should be looking at our future in terms of creating an open, accessible region that is the very best place in these islands to locate and start a business. I think with the right policies we can meet those challenges of Brexit, to meet the challenges of living in a global economy. But to do any of these things we need a government in place. Brexit wouldn’t have been the outcome that I wanted from the referendum but I think we’ve got to meet the challenge headon. There are big questions over what the future holds. I think the Chequers deal was probably the basis of a deal to move forward but we obviously still face an uncertain future. I think that there is probably a majority now in the House of Commons for a softer Brexit. The hardline Brexiteers aren’t going to get what they want and the hardline Remainers aren’t going to get what they want. It’ll have to be something that ensures we have all the right access in terms of the single market, that we don’t have borders on the island of Ireland or in the Irish Sea.
Q On a lighter note, your first name ‘Glyn’ can cause some confusion...
A Glyn is a very Welsh name. I’ve had some correspondence addressed to Mrs Glyn Roberts. I remember one meeting where the people there all gave me a funny look. Eventually one of them said: “We were expecting a woman.” Even though I’m east Belfast-born and bred I’m very proud of my Welsh roots. I spent many happy holidays in north Wales and to me, in a way, it underlines how in these islands, Britain and Ireland, we are all part of the same family. And that may be the basis for the solution to some of our political problems.