’That is what the people think’: committee chief highlights Mail’s tracker campaign
THE chairman of the Oireachtas Finance Committee confronted the Governor of the Central Bank with two Irish Daily Mail front page stories on the growing tracker scandal.
Brandishing the papers from earlier this week, Fianna Fáil TD John McGuinness read out the headlines: ‘Tracker scandal litany of shame’, and ‘Why will nobody stand up to our bullying banks?’
He then asked the Central Bank Governor Philip Lane: ‘How, in the name of God, can you stand over this?’
Holding the papers, he told Central Bank officials: ‘That is what the people think of this. I want to know what steps can you or the ECB take to ensure that some form of either restriction or sanction is put on the banks for failing to do things honestly?
‘They were dishonest in what they did. They stole money from people which they did not repay, and whether they did it after 2013 or before 2013, they still stole their money, and they have not given it back. They took that money fraudulently.’
He said it was ‘a question of grand theft from thousands of people’, of whom he said, ‘They did wrong – so give it back.’
Mr McGuinness had earlier asked: ‘This is an opportunity for lenders to show they are different from what they were before. So are they showing you that they’re so different?’
When the bank’s Director General for Financial Conduct, Derville Rowland, replied: ‘Let’s wait and see,’ Mr McGuinness said: ‘No, no, no, no. I’m asking you, out of your experience… do you detect any difference in culture or attitude from the banks?’
She replied: ‘To be fair in the report card that you’re asking me to give, some have been proactive, open, have moved to reasonable proposals at an earlier stage.
‘Others are slower to come to that, so I’d give it a mixed review card. Some of these schemes are up and running. But we want to see the ones that we’re in dispute with, the ones that we don’t agree with, they still have an opportunity.’
Mr McGuinness said: ‘That’s the problem. We can sit here for a long time, and you almost become conditioned to the role of the Central Bank, and you’re invited by the exchange to almost forget the human consequences. I might forget the previous hearings, but I will not forget the human consequences and carnage left after this event.’
Later, Mr McGuinness said: ‘If I go into a licensed premises and I drink after hours, I’d be in court and fined for breach of the licensing laws. If I go into a shop and I steal a pair of socks, I’ll probably be in court the following Tuesday.’ At this point, he held up two recent headlines from the Irish Daily Mail – ‘Tracker scandal litany of shame’, and ‘Why will nobody stand up to our bullying banks?’ – and said, ‘That’s what the people think about this.’
‘So I’m asking, what steps can you take, or can the ECB take, to ensure that some form of restriction or sanction is put on the banks for failing to do things honestly? Have you looked at it from that perspective?
‘That they were dishonest in what they did, they stole money from people which they have not repaid, and whether they did it after 2013 or before 2013, they still stole their money and they haven’t given it back.
‘So I wouldn’t consider it to be a moral issue or a legal issue. I would consider that they did wrong so give them it back. Is that the way that you would look at it?’
Professor Lane said the bank was acting on ‘several levels’ in order to repay people and said the gardaí would be contacted if necessary.
Mr McGuinness asked: ‘But is that what they did? They took people’s money fraudulently? They made people pay back money to them that they weren’t entitled to ask for.
‘And on request, it didn’t return that money, so after a number of years you could describe
‘A question of grand theft from thousands’
that as the bank stealing the money on the people and not returning it. Isn’t that the basic position where we’re at? Is that a question of legislation or morals or anything else? It’s a question of grand theft from thousands of people and the money remains in the banks.
‘Now, let’s just look at the human side here. You said earlier about the banks and how they behave. The woman that wrote to us with three children, with Asperger’s the woman who said a whole ten years gone from her life.’
He referenced a man who had given evidence that he had suffered a stroke due to the tracker scandal and asked: ‘How in the name of God can you stand over any of it?’ He added: ‘Why is it that you cannot say to the bank in question, you stole their money, put them back on their correct payments, whether it’s 2013 or before it.’ Prof. Lane replied: ‘This is a scandal.’ Mr McGuinness shot back: ‘We don’t need you here to tell us that. It’s how you’re dealing with the scandal that worries me.’
Prof. Lane said: ‘So we are doing what we can and we think we are quite successful and will be successful in delivering for many thousands of people, reimbursement and compensation.’
Mr McGuinness replied: ‘I’m tired of listening to the Central Bank tell us all of the things and I understand them. I understand your difficulty in relation to the law and everything else.’