READ THE FULL INTERVIEW WITH JOHN HALLIGAN
Independent Minister John Halligan tells Niamh Horan it’s ‘giddy up’ time if Simon Harris doesn’t go through with the second cath lab for Waterford
JOHN Halligan is on the phone, pacing back and forth, effing and blinding to a man on the other end of the line while I pour him a cup of coffee. He tells the man to have a word with Kevin ‘Boxer’ Moran — who he calls “an idiot”.
He tells the caller to warn the Independent TD to toe the line. Then sits down for our interview exasperated but all smiles: “That was Shane Ross.”
It’s been a tough week for the Independent Minister for Training and Skills.
The Government had made one promise to him — that it would deliver a second catheterisation laboratory for his local University Waterford Hospital — in return for his support.
He was told an independent review by medical experts would be a simple formality — so it wouldn’t look ‘political’. They shook hands, John got a nice ministerial position and then the review came back, finding no need for a second cath lab in Waterford.
“Do I bring down the Government?” John muses as he sips his coffee. “I don’t want to bring down the Government. But if it takes that, I will have to.”
On his decision four months ago to get into bed with the Government, he says: “On a human level it was traumatic for me.”
But he asserts that “while the rest of them (in Opposition) were sitting on their backsides around their constituencies” and “crying and hiding behind bushes and counters” he decided to give it a go.
In hindsight, however, he is disillusioned with the way it has turned out. His dreams of a second cath lab lie in dust, the Government has denied his version of events and — to add insult to injury — Halligan is being depicted in the national press as a petulant child who needs to go along with the party line.
At the time of negotiations, Transport Minister Shane Ross, a group of Waterford hospital consultants and barrister Aisling Dunne were present. On the other side were Simon Harris, Simon Coveney, Leo Varadkar and Michael Noonan.
Halligan explains that Coveney and Noonan told him the promise would be seen as political. To get it through, Noonan said, they would need to conduct a review. He says Shane Ross witnessed this and will back his version of events. If Noonan denies this, he says, “he is telling lies”.
Afterwards, Simon Harris broke the news that the independent review found against Halligan’s one request.
The Waterford man whips out a briefing document sent by the HSE to the independent medical expert who is in charge of the review. In it, the HSE pre-warns the expert: “The service would be a waste of very limited resources.”
Halligan waves it about in disbelief: “It has to be a stitch up… I feel set up because they broke their promise and they had no intention of delivering it in the first place.”
In hindsight, he believes the Government has been “completely distrustful, disingenuous and economical with the truth”.
He added: “You know what my personal view is? I haven’t said this to anyone else but you can print it: I feel there was interference from other hospitals. Because if Waterford was to get the second cath lab, that would mean work would be lost elsewhere. And that’s what it comes down to. It comes down to interference.
“So my position remains the same. I am steadfast in my refusal to be intimidated by Fine Gael. I will not back down.”
He believes the “intimidation” is coming from “the Government’s friends in the media” who are reporting that he is trying to destabilise the Government.
But the good of the people, he says, is his only motivation.
Halligan tells the story of a woman who was terminally ill with cancer and who travelled from Dublin to Waterford to sit in the front row for a speech during his election campaign.
“She left the hospital at 5pm to come down and listen to what I had to say. They are the people that matter to me.”
So it’s not that you got into government, got a bit comfortable, and now it’s hard to give up?
“No, absolutely not. I am comfortable. Money has never, ever bothered me. My leadership allowance — I could have kept the €3,000 a month and bought a Mercedes — I gave it away. I never kept one penny.”
What would you say to Simon Coveney now if you saw him?
“I would say Simon needs to step up to the plate and use the influence he apparently has. He has to be true to himself. I think if you are not true to yourself, then where are you? I have been honourable and honest with him, now he should be with me.”
And if he is not? “I will be bitterly disappointed in him as a human being.”
What about Simon Harris?
“I am bitterly disappointed with Simon. We have a few days left that something might be salvaged.” And Michael Noonan? Halligan says he is a good man but adds that if he says Halligan’s version of events is not true then “he has to live with his own conscience”.
He describes their actions as “dirty politics”.
“What they should do now, if they believe I am destabilising the Government, is put me out.
“F**k ’em,” he says. “Put me out. I don’t care. If that’s what they want to do, put me out. But I know what I am doing is right and honourable.”
So is there any room for a man of principles in government any more?
His looks at his phone: “Sorry that’s The Late Late Show… do you mind if I just...” I’ve lost his attention. Are you going on the show tonight?
“No. Next week. Sorry, now... Say that again to me... that was a good question.” I repeat it. “I think, Niamh, we have to believe that.”
Tomorrow morning, he will talk to a group of close advisers — 30 in total. On the same day, he says, the hospital consultants are due to meet Simon Harris, where they will formally reject the review.
“If I feel I’m not getting anywhere with the Government, then I will not be a hypocrite and stay in to take the salary. I will walk. And that’s it.”
If they don’t go with you on this you will walk?
“Oh, absolutely. You can print that. They have to go with me or I will walk.”
The only thing that has stopped him resigning thus far, he says, are the consultants and people of Waterford, who are telling him not to go.
But he says: “If Harris still stands his ground on it, well then it’s giddy-up time with me. And that’s it.”
Although he describes being a minister as a “privilege”, he says: “I am not bullshitting you: this thing of being a minister, it’s no big deal. I am actually inundated. I am too busy and I have other things to do in my constituency.”
Today, to reflect on what has happened, he will take a walk on Sallins beach. “I walk there on my own and think about things,” he says.
One of the things on his mind is his “deep regret that people I trusted let me down”.
“I am angry because I am a
‘John Halligan does not bite down and suck up for anyone. And you can print that’
great believer in that if I do a deal with someone, I stick to it. I am angry with Fine Gael in total. I am really angry.
“I am angry with the people I negotiated with. Michael Noonan, Simon Coveney and Leo Varadkar. I am very angry with them. But the second cath lab will be delivered at some stage because there’s going to be such an outcry.” His phone rings. Boxer’s nose must be itching again. This time the caller is a woman.
From John’s side of the phone, the conversation goes like this: “She is adamant he did... Look he is a big f **king mouth... I believe he did. Sorry to have to be blunt with you… I don’t want to ring him. I am not interested... Let him... I am not interested… You mean your words... When you say something you mean it or you don’t and that’s the way it is... He should have thought very carefully about what he said... He should mind his own business about Waterford. That’s about the height of it. What he has done is give the perception that there is a division.”
He hangs up and is back sitting in front of me as if nothing has happened.
I ask him what Boxer has done to upset him.
“He is making statements asking other Independents to join the Alliance. Somebody was saying he made a statement saying I should accept the proposal.” Many believe he should. I ask his feelings towards the children in other constituencies — in need of brain surgery — who are being turned away due to lack of resources.
And I ask about the children whose spines are curving as they sit on waiting lists for scoliosis operations. What would he say to their parents who are reading this, who may feel John is being selfish on behalf of his constituency?
“What I would say to those parents is: you fight like I am fighting. You get your TDs… you get them to fight for your right to have care.
“We are one of the richest countries in the world. We have Apple with €200bn in accounts outside (the country); we have the money — if we go and get it — to make all this happen.
“You’ve got to fight! Fight! Like everybody else fights. Make your TDs deliver it.”
At the end of it all, for no better word, I ask if he feels f **ked over?
“I am not going to be f**ked over by anybody,” he says. “I don’t care if it is the man on the street or some guy threatening me. And you can print that.
“Somebody said to me during the week ‘sometimes you have got to bite down and suck up. Well John Halligan does not bite down and suck up for anybody. And you can print that. And I don’t give a damn. I’ ll face down anybody.
“I have faced down drug pushers. I have faced down money lenders here in Waterford. They (the Government) are nothing to the people I have had to face in my life.
“I have had to sit down with a man who has lost the use of his arm because he is injecting heroin into his penis and toe nails. A decent chap who is hooked on heroin. So I can’t face them down? They better bet I can.
“I came from a tough area. I was in the Workers’ Party when they were being assassinated in Belfast by the provisional INLA, the IRA terrorists and I was in that party standing with them at the time, so am I afraid?” He taps me on the boots and laughs: “You can bet your boots I’m not afraid.”
So what lesson has he learned from all this?
“I haven’t learned any lesson actually because I am still fighting and when I fight I win. If I lose it will be at a cost to them. Because I will bring all hell down on top of them if they don’t deliver this.”
“This bothers me? The Government threatening me? I laugh at them! If they want to carry through their threats tell them to sack me tomorrow... there will be no tears.”
As we chat beside the marina, local drivers blow their horns in support.
“They (the Government) are ruthless, Niamh,” he says, before spotting a nearby life-buoy: “I may be needing this.”