LEO AND MICHEÁL IN KERRY

EXCLUSIVE interviews with Kerryman reporter Simon Brouder

Micheál Martin

LAST Thursday The Kerryman met with the Fianna Fáil leader during his visit to Tralee and ahead of his crunch meeting with Leo Varadkar to discuss the confidence and supply deal.

SIMON BROUDER: To begin I’ d like to ask your opinion on what’ s happening at Li eb herr in Kill arney( where the majority of staff may be placed on a three day week) and what can be done?

Michael Martin: I would be very concerned about the rumours that are circulating in relation to Liebherr and I would call for clarity as soon as possible in terms of what the plans are and what the situation is.

I have great respect and admiration for Liebherr and its enormous contribution to both Kerry and the country over very many decades. It was, after all, one of the first major inward investments into the country. One is looking at high end manufacturing which is very important for the economy. When I was Minister for Enterprise we would have had a very warm relationship with the company and we would have been in regular touch with them.

SB: What should be done?

MM: I’d ask that we get clarity from the Government in terms of its engagement with the company and to make sure that every effort possible is being made by everybody involved to ensure that the company can come through this difficulty and get on to a sustainable platform for the future.

I would make the point that one of the most significant criticisms of our inward investment policy, with some justification, has been the huge difficulties in getting additional foreign direct investment in to

Kerry.

Here is a company that has been here for the long haul and in that context everything has to be done to protect the jobs because we know the difficulties in attracting modern FDI into a region like Kerry and there’s a lot of infrastructural issues we need to get sorted. Every effort has to be made to here to protect the jobs because they are very, very valuable manufacturing jobs.

SB: Many people in Kerry feel that enough isn’t being done to bring investment to Kerry and that Kerry, and the rest of Ireland is playing second fiddle to Dublin and, your own constituency, Cork What’s your take on this?

MM: In 2017 there was nine IDA site visits. Dublin had 284. Now we don’t expect that Kerry would be at the same level as Dublin but that is the contrast. There’s a huge imbalance in the country as a whole.

Cork has had a historical pharmaceutical base and then it has Apple which came in a way back a bit like Liebherr in Kerry.

There were maybe 800 jobs there in the late 90s, it was nearly closing in the late 90s. Again that’s the point Apple was nearly closed in 97, 98. Only for the late Joe Gantly (the former boss of Apple in Cork) going out and meeting Apple’s top executives and saying we can do other things here than basic manufacturing it might have closed.

Then the touch screeen revolution happened and Cork benefited. Now Cork has maybe 5,000 people working at Apple.

That’s the transformation that can happen in company. We really have to try and convince companies that, like Apple, they can locate effectively in Kerry and in the west.

Just take Fexco. It’s a classic example. If it can do it others can do it. There seems to be an easy, least line of resistance approach, being taken (by the agencies with potential investors)

Then there’s Irish owned companies leaving Kerry to go to Dublin and Nass and other places. I think there needs to be very serious issues put to corporates in Ireland because we’re dragging young people from the regions.

SB: Would you agree that there is too much focus on Dublin and isn’t that having a detrimental effect on the rest of the country in terms of its impact on communities and especially on younger people?

MM: Many are going to Dublin where they have high rents, if they can get a house, their quality of life is poor and most young people who get jobs with big companies don’t earn high wages in the beginning. With a combination of high rents, high car insurance, travelling back occasionally, maybe, to their families They find themselves working on a treadmill with very little for them at the end of the week. I think that this sort of easy line, that we all have to go to Dublin because that’s where all the talent goes, doesn’t wash.

It doesn’t make sense. I think there’s lots of people no who’d love to come back to their counties and there’s no reason why - given the improved motorways and infrastructure across the country – why we can’t locate high quality companies in the regions. There has to be a rebalancing of economic development on the island of Ireland.

SB: How do you think that can be achieved. It seems in a lot of cases – as in Tralee for example, where the local chamber is close to bringing in 100 new jobs – many towns have been forced to take matters into their own hands. Isn’t this the IDA’s job?

MM: 100 per cent. We’ve said for a number of years that there should be a dedicated unit in the IDA and in Enterprise Ireland for the regions to focus in on rebalancing where investment goes. I travel the country and there’s a real crisis in many towns in terms of vacancy rates.

Vacant units could also be utilised in terms of our housing problem.

There’s lot of work to be done, on a co-ordinated basis across different departments, to inject life back into our towns and I think in some areas there are very good examples in terms of chambers and local authorities coming together to make things happen

At the moment there’s an attitude of ‘ Do It Yourself’ rather than waiting for agencies. The Government agencies have to come with something more meaningful to the table than just some aspirational rhetoric. That’s all were getting at the moment, aspiration and rhetoric and, really, people are getting tired hearing about the ‘2040’ roadshow.

There’s billions being announced, or re-announced, into the ether for 2030 or 2040. People want to find out what the plan is for 2019.

SB: High rates are a problem in many town’s what can be done in that regard?

MM: We need to look at commercial rates in towns to try and devise a new system that can help new entities come in without being clobbered by excessive rates straight away.

I came across a very good example in Limerick where they’ve taken an initiative to introduce a rebate system that small to medium sized entities. There are things that you can do.

SB: Maintaining local authority funding would appear to be the main issue regarding rates.

MM: It is a very rigid system and some very strange anomalies emerge where small companies with very small turnover are hit with very high rates.

Council’s are shrinking in terms of their revenue base, and that is a concern, we would argue that there always has to be some degree of flexibility attached to council budgets.

SB: In terms of infrastructure funding there’s a feeling that rural Ireland receives less than its fair share.

One example would be the Valentia Ferry which only needs about €1.8 million to keep going. The Government seems unwilling to fund it while it will spend up to €4billion on a metro for Dublin.

MM- It (the ferry) is a vital piece of infrastructure, very important for tourism and the region, and yet no one nationally has come forward with a clear vision as to we can keep it going for the next 10 or 15 years. It’s in issues like this where you put meat on the bone of the rhetoric about rural Ireland and protecting the regions.

it’s outrageous. A minor professional cost attached to the Dublin metro would fund that ferry. There might be issues but there’s ways of doing things. We need a framework to facilitate the continuation of these kinds of services.

SB: Moving to electoral matters Fianna Fáil has come in for some criticism over the party’s decision not to nominate a candidate for the Presidency. Some claim that the decision to support President Higgins is based on a desire to preserve funds for a potential General Election and the local and European elections next year. Is that a fair assessment?

MM – Let’s be absolutely clear the Euro and local elections are 12 months always so that’s not an issue.

Lets get down to brass tacks. Is there a good president there? Yes. Will he do well if he continues in office and has he done well? The answer is yes. No one is disagreeing with that. My view is you don’t oppose an incumbent just for the sake of it.

The presidency doesn’t belong to any particular party. It belongs to the people.

I don’t believe peo- ple should be stopped from going forward. The present system for nominating candidates is too restrictive in my view.

Our councillors will be in a position to facilitate candidates. They have a constitutional right and prerogative, it’s a reserve function, to nominate candidates neither I or the party want to trample on that right.

SB: Regarding a General Election there has been some‘ silly season’ shadow boxing going on about the confidence and supply agreement with Fine Gael and a potential election. What is your position?

MM: The only person doing any shadow-boxing has been the Taoiseach. I didn’t start this.

For the last six months this notion has been out three and it didn’t get out there by accident. There’s been reports and leaks from government sources and sources ‘close to the Taoiseach’ – which means the Taoiseach – that basically they must have an agreement, in advance of the next budget, to go on for another two years.

I think they are doing that for political reasons and I think the Taoiseach was contemplating a General Election in September, maybe getting giddy with polls or worried about Brexit.

Our view from the beginning – and we’ve been on the record about it – is that we would fulfil the confidence and supply agreement and that we wanted to negotiate a third budget.

I think that was as good a statement of intent to underpin the stability of a Government as one could get from any opposition leader.

I think that hasn’t been respected enough and I don’t think that it has been acknowledged enough.

I don’t believe in having an election every six months. When you enter into an agreement, barring unexpected situation which can occur and are accounted for, you should honour that agreement.

SB: How satisfied are you with what has been achieved as part of the agreement?

MM: We’re not happy with everything, we’re very unhappy with the failure to deliver on housing and in our health services, which is very manifest, for example at the hospital her in Tralee which is under huge pressure.

On big ticket items, housing and health the Government has failed but there has been some progress on pupil teacher ratios, the patient treatment fund, which we have had restored, and on other policy items in the agreement.

SB: If there is an election how ready are Fianna Fáil in Kerry. Have candidates been chosen?

MM: That is the responsibility of the national constituency committee. They decide on these issues.

We had a very healthy convention with a large turnout and quite a number of candidates went forward.

Clearly there’s a geographic balance to be achieved in whatever team is arrived at. Last time we had John and Norma Moriarty who fought very competitively. It’s a matter for the committee and they will decide A on the number and B on who the candidates will be and I image they will be deciding the candidates in the near future.

SB: Finally as a former health Minister what do you think can be done to deal with the ongoing issues in our hospitals? You just referenced overcrowding at University Hospital Kerry for example.

MM – There are record levels of people on trolleys. I think Fine Gael have been disastrous on health since 2011 they came in with Universal Health Insurance, the notion that money follows the patient and all of that. They had no blueprint for it and they couldn’t implement it. It took them six years to abandon it and they then abandoned it without any alternative plan.

They abolished the treatment purchase fund which has resulted in patient waiting times going through the roof. That’s been the major problem in the last number of years.

Then there’s the lack of transparency in the budget allocations.

Every year we’ve never gotten the real story on how many beds were needed or what was required and every year we’ve had massive overruns.

It almost as if we’ve been given fraudulent budgets. We need the full story of what the health service’s needs actually are.

Leo Varadkar

ON Friday – the third day of his visit to the county – The Kerryman met with the Taoiseach and Fine Gael leader at Killarney’s Great Southern Hotel where Mr Varadkar was based during his stay.

Simon Brouder: Before we move to any other matters I’d like to ask you about the situation at Liebherr and what can be done?

Leo Varadkar: I appreciate that Liebherr is a huge employer and a long standing employer and one that provides very good jobs. Knowing that I was coming down here and I’d be asked about I have been in touch with the IDA to see what the situation is. I understand that what they intend to do is put some staff, not all, on a three day week and that’s largely down to a decrease in orders and stiff competition that they are facing from other companies.

What we’ll certainly do as a Government is, through the IDA and Minister Humphreys, is to sit down with Liebherr and talk to them about what can be done to deal with the underlying problem which is that they aren’t getting the pipeline of orders that they would have been in the past and that probably involves management and the unions and employees getting together to work out a programme of competitiveness.

They are already getting some support from us around R&D and that will continue but our message to the company is to minimise the impact on staff in terms of going to a three day week.

We’d like that to be as few as possible for as short a time as possible. We’re very keen to work with the company as a very valued employer, in a very important part of the country for inward investment, to see what we can do to assist them to get more orders into the future, ultimately that’s what companies need.

SB: There is a feeling among many that, while the economy is growing nationally, perhaprs the benefits aren’t being felt equally across the country or even in individual counties. For example in Kerry while Killarney is thriving thanks to tourism Tralee isn’t faring as well.

LV: I think its fair to say economic growth is happening all over the country. You mentioned Tralee. Back in 2012 there were 6,800 people in Tralee unemployed, that’s down to 3,746 now. That’s a 44 per cent reduction, but that’s not as good as the reduction in Killarney or Kenmare for example.

I think, to be brutally honest, we are seeing a recovery all over the country. There is decreased unemployment and rising incomes all over the country, but it’s also honest to say it’s not even.

That’s why Government policy has to be about making sure that everyone benefits from our prosperity and that all parts of the county benefit that’s something we’re really driving forward. It’s why we’re focussing so much on creating employment outside Dublin.

It’s why we’re investing so much in tourism and it’s why, with Project Ireland 2040 were focussing so much on developing infrastructure.

That includes really important road developments like for example Adare and Macroom/ Ballyvourney but it’s never going to be the case that any Government can sign a piece of paper to make sure that every single person in every single town and village benefits equally.

SB: Some argue that investment isn’t being shared equally. In Valentia people wonder why €1.8 million can’t be provided to keep the ferry going €4 billion will be spent on a metro in Dublin.

LV: I don’t know specific details of the ferry so I don’t want to comment without all the facts but there is a difference between infrastructure spending and operational subsidies.

Kerry Fine Gael TD Brendan Griffin – Junior Minister at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport – who was present interjects to outline the Department’s position on the Ferry.

Brendan Griffin: In relation to Valentia Ferry we’ve had numerous meetings with the committee. State aid is the big challenge for us there. We can’t find an avenue to legally provide funding to replace the ferry. If you cross the €200k threshold you’re into State aid territory that’s the stumbling block and we are trying to find some way of getting around it.

THE Taoiseach then outlines his view on the alleged urban rural divide in Ireland.

LV: I really don’t like the idea, and I hear it a lot, where people try to divide the country. You know Dublin versus the rest; east versus west coast; urban versus rural. Increasingly there’s this idea of a line between Cork and Dublin those who live on one side of it doing great and those on the other side being neglected.

I don’t see it that way. People are right to point out that there’s going to be multi billion Euro investment in Metro in Dublin because Dublin needs much better public transport. At the same time there’s going to be a multi billion Euro investment in rural broadband because that’s what rural Ireland needs.

SB: Why do you think the Government’s message isn’t getting out? Why does Michael Healy-Rae’s constant refrain about the Government ignoring anything outside the Red Cow Roundabout seem to win out?

LV: What some opposition politicians do, and I’m not talking about anyone in particular, is that they try to divide people and try to exploit that division for their own electoral gain.

When I often talk about transport people talk about the cost of linking the Luas lines and the cost of Newlands Cross. The cost of those two combined was about €500 million. That was less than the cost of the Gort/Tuam motorway. The biggest single investment in Ireland in the last seven years happened in the West or Ireland.

What we need to acknowledge is that different parts of the country have different needs. Investing taxpayers’ money in broadband in rural Ireland makes a lot of sense.

Investing in improving our roads in Cork and Kerry makes a lot of sense, it doesn’t actually make much sense to do that in Dublin. Its very easy to create an ‘unfairness’ when you don’t acknowledge different parts of the county have different needs.

SB: High rates are a problem in many town’s what can be done in that regard?

LV: I think you’re right on that. When it comes to small business what we plan to do with rates is to give local authorities a lot more autonomy around how they levy rates. We’ve a commercial rates bill that will come through the Dáil, probably next year, which will give Local Authorities the power to vary rates a bit more and maybe to reduce rates for new businesses to get them up and running.

There could also be differential rates, maybe for a main street for example, to encourage more businesses to open on main streets.

I think that criticism (of the current rate system) is correct and that’s what we intend to do about it. Ultimately though it is a zero sum game because commercial rates go to the local authorities and they use them to fund local services.

Local authorities using these powers might end up asking some businesses to pay more. Also, say for example, there are two hairdressers in the town and you give a rates incentive to the new hairdresser that may impact on the hairdresser that’s been there for ten or twenty years.

You have to get these things right but I think the people who can get these things right are the local authorities because they know their own areas much better than anyone sitting in a Government Department in Dublin and I think it’s right to give them these powers.

SB: Can you outline why Fine Geal have opted to support President Michael D Higgin’s relection and not to run a candidate of your own?

LV: We’ll be putting our full resources behind President Higgins. We think he’s done a fabulous job over the last seven years, he’s well liked by the Irish people, he’s discharged his functions as President impeccably and he has represented us abroad very well and with enormous energy. That’s why we’re backing him.

Just to be very clear, it’s not a situation of us sitting out the election. We are not sitting it out. We are supporting President Higgins and we’ll support him vigorously and actively.

SB: There has been a lot of discussion about the future of the confidence and supply deal between Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and the possibility of an election. Micheál Martin has accused you personally of stoking the possibility of an election for political gain. What’s your side of the story?

LV: What I’m suggesting should be done, I’ve met with Micheal Martin in the last couple of days and we’ve exchanged each others perspectives on this and what he’s saying is that he’s willing to engage with us on renegotiating the confidence and supply agreement at the end of the year. We would prefer to do that sooner rather than later.

We have a budget to get through in October; legislation around the Eighth Amendment to get through the Dáil in the same period and we also could be in a very difficult period around negotiations on Brexit.

I don’t think it’s good for the country that we should have political instability around then. We see the instability in London at the moment where there is a minority Government that is losing votes in the House of Commons and that has weakened the negotiating position of the British Government.

I don’t want us to be in negotiations on Brexit in October with people I’m sitting across from wondering if this Irish Government will be around in few weeks time.

Micheál’s proposal is that we pass all the legislation that gives effect to the budget. The difficulty for me in that is I don’t know what will happen the day after.

I think the country needs to know that it has a Government and that’s why I think it would be appropriate to begin talks on extending that agreement now.

What I’d like to do is agree a date for an election instead of having this uncertainty about when will the election happen and who is going to call it.

I’d like to have the stability of knowing that we will have a Government that will bring us through the Brexit negotiations; through Brexit actually happening – which will happen in March next year – and to have an agreed date for an election, ideally in the Summer of 2020. That’s the proposal that I’m making.

SB:I’d like to ask your opinion on what’s happening in the health service, particularly the crisis over trolleys and overcrowding. Would you would agree it is a crisis?

LV: First of all I think it is a crisis and certainly anyone whose experienced having to wait several hours or even a day on a trolley to get a hospital bed would very much describe it as a crisis so It’s something that I take very seriously

Somebody having to wait hours and hours to get a bed is below the standard of care that we believe people should have.

What we’ve learned over the last couple of years is that its not, as a lot of people make it out, simply an issue of more staff; more budget and more beds.

If you take Kerry for example It used to be one of the least overcrowded hospitals a couple of years ago and it has gone the other way. That has happened against the backdrop of an increase in staff - there’s now more than 1,00 staff – and an increase in budget from €62 million three years ago to €71 million now. So as staff and budgets have increased the situation has gotten worse.

You’ll see the reverse then in somewhere like Drogheda where they used to top the table for overcrowding, and they have all the same challenges as everyone else with a growing and ageing population, and yet they’ve managed to reduce their trolleys to the lowest level in 12 years. The same goes for Beaumont.

What we need to help everyone accept, and what everyone needs to accept if we’re going to solve this problem is that issues such as finance, beds numbers and staff won’t solve the problem on its own.

So much of it is down to good management and clinical governance and I think what we need to do in hospitals like UHK in Tralee, that have gone from good to bad, is to examine what works in other hospitals and try to implement those solutions there.

SB: Are you saying there are too many layers of management involved in running our hospitals?

LV: I often contrast what we have in education with what we have in health. Take eduction. We spend €10 billion a year but I think most people would acknowledge that we have a pretty good education system.

We have pretty good primaries, secondaries and universities and they way they are run is different. Every school has a principal and every college has a president and they all have their own board so you know whose in charge and who is accountable.

The health service is very different. There is, I think, primarily a failure of management and a failure of governance. I don’t think it’s a case of there being too many layers. Its a case of it not being clear who is in charge. Perhaps if every hospital had a strong, powerful CEO – and director and its own board that they were accountable to – then you might get better results.