PERMISSION WOES
Heated debate as 16 players look to play U20 football
A heated and at times tense debate took place at the special County Board meeting held in Balinakill last Thursday night regarding 16 footballers seeking permissions to play with teams competing in the under-20 football championship.
‘The situation is, tonight, this meeting has been called to deal with permissions, adult permissions,’ began Mick Hagan, who was chairing the meeting in the absence of County Chairman Martin Fitzgerald.
‘During the course of the year – there was a deadline set out at the start of the year and was passed by the County Board – but during the course of the year we shied away from that deadline and allowed two or three players on permission to two clubs for hurling.
‘So, tonight, are we still shying away from them votes passed at the start of the year and will we deal with these permissions tonight,’ he added.
‘Who called this meeting?’ asked Bobby Dignam from Rathnew.
‘We did,’ said Chris O’Connor. ‘Whose we?’ asked Bobby. ‘The County Board. To deal with the permissions. We can’t play the under-20 (championship) unless it’s ratified here. And that’s per rule 3.19N. It has to be ratified by the county committee,’ replied the county secretary.
‘Our county byelaws state that a special county board meeting can only be called if it’s in writing from five affiliated clubs. Did five affiliated clubs request this meeting? In writing?’ inquired Dignam.
‘I wouldn’t say so, Bobby, but if we don’t ratify those permissions there’ll be no fixtures at the weekend, or players won’t play,’ replied O’Connor.
‘Well, we’re objecting to it anyway’. Just because during the course of the year, and in the previous years with Martin (Coleman) there, we often let players through here and there, yes, but we’re looking at five players here going to Baltinglass, five players going to Tinahely. Now, these are two big clubs. Nobody is stopping them playing football but certainly there is two groups in two and three with only three teams in them, why don’t these 16 players go in as Luke O’Toole’s or something?’ pondered the Rathnew delegate.
‘Just to set the ball rolling, are we agreeing that we are going to deal with these permissions tonight on the basis that it’s well past the deadline and during the year we broke the deadline as well?’ asked Mick Hagan.
County secretary Chris O’Connor informed the meeting that permissions had been granted for the under-20 football championship last year as well and that it wasn’t just for this year’s competition.
AGB’s John Murphy clarified that that had been two weeks’ or more prior to the start of the competition and not a ‘few days’ before it commencing as was the case last week. The County Secretary agreed with the point made.
‘When you see something going on with such rush and such haste and such... it looks like it’s the last minute and some of ye have said, ‘oh whoops, we have rules, oh whoops, we need a meeting’. We need to call meetings in the proper format. We can’t just do it with a quick meeting. It’s not how our organisation runs,’ said Rathnew’s Pat Doyle.
Chris O’Connor inquired of CCC representative Conor Doyle when the group had met on the subject. Doyle informed delegates that they had a conversation on Monday evening.
‘And did the CCC think or assume at that point that ye could have done it without coming to a County Board meeting?’ asked Pat Doyle.
Conor Doyle explained that the issue came about due to a wording issue from minutes from a meeting in May.
‘Up as far as under 16s it’s classified as juvenile, and underage is classified as Minor and under-20. So, in the minutes of the County Board meeting on May 27 it stated that it was passed on the floor of this room that the CCC could deal with permissions for juveniles. If that wording had said ‘underage’ there wouldn’t have been an issue. On the basis of that wording having created such issues in the last couple of weeks, that won word, it was felt to call the meeting tonight,’ said Conor Doyle.
‘It’s a tough job, I won’t say it’s not a tough job you have. It’s just that there’s huge numbers going...a third of a team going to one club, a third of a team going to another club, and two proud, big clubs,’ added Pat Doyle.
Mick Hagan again appealed as to whether the meeting was actually going ahead or not given that the meeting was outside the deadline imposed earlier in the year.
A proposer and seconder were found to allow the meeting to go ahead while Rathnew’s Bobby Dignam objected, citing the rule passed on January 31, and based on the number of players going to Tinahely and Baltinglass.
‘Baltinglass have been in three or four county finals in the last three or four years and now they’re looking for five fellows from Tinahely. It’s looking like super clubs,’ he said.
Baltinglass delegate Ciaran Fleming interjected and said that Bobby Dignam needed to get the facts correct.
‘We didn’t look for nobody. They came to us, we didn’t go looking for anyone,’ he said.
Mick Hagan again asked if the meeting could go ahead before discussions got going as to who was going where. It was decided that a vote was required to see if the meeting was to go ahead or be adjourned.
A further discussion broke out prior to the vote being taken as to whether or not the competition would be in jeopardy if the vote resulted in the meeting not going ahead. Rathnew’s Pat Doyle was adamant that regardless of what happened that they would fall back on the rule set out in January and that the competition would go ahead as planned, without the extra players which the permissions, if granted, would introduce to the competition.
There were several rogue attempts at further discussions but Chairman of the CCC Mick Hagan finally declared that no further speakers would be entertained until the vote was taken.
Thevotewastaken,anditwas overwhelmingly passed that the meeting should go ahead.
‘We have permissions on the table,’ began Mick Hagan. ‘And they are classed as adult permissions. And adult permissions have to be passed by the County Board before any players can play,’ he said.
Conor Doyle then set about listing off the names of the players looking to go to the various clubs in the county, 16 players in all.
‘We’re going to deal with Baltinglass first. Baltinglass will have to change their name, to Baltinglass Shamrocks (since changed to Shamrocks). Cillian Gilligan from Carnew, and then four players from Kiltegan: Aaron Byrne, Colm Keogh, Padraig O’Toole and Adam Wynne.
‘The players who are going to go to Tinahely, who will be known as Tinahely Gaels (since changed to Kilaveney), are: Diarmuid Lambert from Shillelagh/ Coolboy, Caoimhin Rawson from Shillelagh/Coolboy, Pauric Coleman Murray, Ruairi Tompkins from Coolkenno and Gearoid Murphy from Annacurra.
Clara Gaels, who are already in existence as a body for underage and juvenile football: Padraig Doyle, Dylan Lynch, Robert Davey, Euan Harper and James Doyle, from Annacurra.
‘And we also have Tom Murphy from Aughrim going to Clara
Gaels, 16 in total,’ added Conor Doyle.
‘Through the chair,’ began Bobby Dignam, ‘basically these are group teams, and at no stage can Baltinglass or Tinahely use Tinahely Gaels or Baltinglass whatever, they have to use a group name, that’s in the rule book,’ he added.
‘We checked today with Leinster and they can use those names,’ replied Chris O’Connor. ‘You can’t, Chris’.
‘It says they can’t bear the name of another club in the county and there are no other clubs in the county called Baltinglass Shamrocks or Tinahely Gaels. And the person I spoke to today is on the rules advisory,’ said Chris O’Connor.
‘We believe you, Chris,’ said Pat Doyle.
John Murphy asked had it not been clarified a few years previous that if players were going, they would go from one club to another club, not three or four players going from club and spreading out to three or four different clubs.
John Murphy said that players were ‘pigeon picking’ where they wanted to go.
Bobby Dignam said that the County Board were ignoring ‘our own rules from January 31’.
‘Never before in my time, and I’m a long time around here, has 16 players looked to go anywhere, that’s what I’m saying,’ he said.
John Murphy came back in and sought an answer to why different players wanted to go to different clubs.
Conor Doyle used the example of Gearoid Murphy who has always played with Luke O’Tooles and how the Annacurra man had consulted with Clara Gaels to see if he could play his last year of under-20 football with Tinahely. Doyle also explained about other footballers.
An Annacurra delegate said that Conor Doyle was correct about Gearoid Murphy and he explained that the other four players from their club wanted football and that the club contacted local clubs and that Clara Gaels said they could play there. He also explained that there weren’t enough players between Annacurra and Aughrim to make an under-20 football team.
Conor Doyle then referenced Cillian Gilligan’s application to play with Baltinglass. The Tinahely delegate said they hadn’t been contacted by the player or by Carnew with an official request to play with them. Conor Doyle described that permission as ‘slightly different’ to the rest. Mick Hagan inquired of Carnew Emmets Chairman Tim Balfe as to what the situation was but the Carnew delegate said that he had been unable to contact the player in question.
‘Does this sit ok with everyone on the top table?’ asked Pat Doyle of Rathnew in relation to the 16 permission applications. ‘Do you not find it a little bit strange, a little bit against the rules? It’s a little bit like a transfer window for soccer.
‘My colleague here from Baltinglass got a bit upset because the name (Baltinglass) was being mentioned, but the name was mentioned a few times because you have five players coming to you, and you signed those forms, so you brought yourself into this. If you didn’t want those players, you should have said, ‘no, we don’t need you’. But because Baltinglass as a club signed them, you brought yourselves into this. I don’t think yous need them,’ he added.
Baltinglass delegate Ray Danne then offered a reply to Pat Doyle.
‘Just for clarity, right, for the whole floor, for Rathnew here – Baltinglass have been poked and poked and poked,’ he began.
‘We’re not poking you,’ replied Pat Doyle. ‘Absolutely,’ replied Danne. ‘When you’ve been poked as often as we have, we can talk about it,’ offered Bobby Dignam.
‘Bobby, let me speak, you can speak then. For the under-20 championship that came back into play last year, Baltinglass won the under-20 championship with no permissions, correct?’
A rumbling ‘yes’ was the reply from the delegates.
And for how many teams who played in that championship had permissions? And how long have Baltinglass played with no permissions in the club. Baltinglass come to the table tonight, to the County Board, on the request from a chap from Carnew who said he couldn’t get football for the under-20 championship, would it be ok to come in. And we said, ‘to be honest, if you want to travel to Baltinglass, you’re more than welcome. We got a call the following day from Michael Dwyers in relation to their team, that they couldn’t get a team together and, basically, would it be alright for the lads to come in, and we said absolutely.
‘So, we’re not going to make any apology to any club in this room tonight, because I’ll tell you one thing, and it can go in on the minutes there, Baltinglass have soldiered hard and long with no permissions, getting bet out the gate, and playing in finals, semi-finals and quarter-finals and one thing that we’ve always done is try our best to compete and next thing we come to the floor, lads came to us, they asked, Baltinglass asked nobody to come, and you know what, we don’t need anyone, we have our own players to play. But these lads came to us, we didn’t turn them away, and we’re not ashamed to say it here either,’ he added.
Mick Hagan said that he believed Ray Danne and that they had plenty of players and would not have approached any player.
‘I wouldn’t say we’ve plenty of players Mr Chairman. Everyone has this perception that Baltinglass is a big club. We’re no different than any club. We’re trying hard, trying to get chaps to the field, that’s what we’re about. And when we go to the field we’ll compete, same as any day we ever did. I take serious offence to be nailed as in that Baltinglass are taking in permission players to go and win a championship. We won it last year without permission players.’
Both Rathnew delegates denied suggesting such a thing and Ray Danne said that that was how it had come across.
Philip Bracken said there was no problem with Baltinglass but that the problem was with the suggestion that the CCC had allowed players from one club go to several clubs and that they should have all went the one way.
Mick Hagan then suggested that they go through each permission separately. Bobby Dignam said that if the County Board decided that these players could go play with the other clubs then he would not sit through the 16 cases and all should be taken as one.
‘We certainly are not going to object to any individual player. Nobody looked to play with us by the way. We didn’t them anyway,’ said Dignam.
AGB’s John Murphy said that if one club can’t provide football for their players then all those players should go to one single club.
‘There has to be a structure where players can’t break off from one club to two or three different clubs,’ he said.
Pat Doyle then queried whether Gearoid Murphy was the county player. He was informed that he was. He then asked Martin Coleman if there was a rule preventing inter-county players playing under-20 with their club.
‘Is there no rule in the book, Mr Coleman...
‘Don’t Mr Coleman me, Patrick, it’s Martin,’ replied Martin Coleman.
...where if you play county Senior, you’re not eligible to play under-20 with your club?’
Chris O’Connor said there wasn’t.
After further discussion among the delegates the permissions were granted, and all 16 players were approved to play with the aforementioned clubs.