Stefano Pilati, Riccardo Tisci

To examine the system with critical clarity, one must take a certain distance, in every sense. Stefano Pilati and Riccardo Tisci, in different but parallel ways, are experiencing the same temporary but fruitful exile from the fashion system. The former in Berlin, the latter nomadically. But they are both deeply bound to the Bel Paese, and make no mystery of it. These two top-notch creatives on momentary hiatus, waiting for a worthy opportunity, open up in this double interview, talking frankly about thorny issues like the identity, character and peculiarities of Italian fashion – and not only. Who better than them? Wounded lions bite harder. What’s striking is the picture they paint, merciless but impassioned, of a system desperately in need of reform, while keeping in mind the glorious lesson of history. But in the end they turn their evident pessimism into strength, and from it emerges a vision for building a better future.

Can Italian creativity be defined?

SP Of course it can, if it’s contextualized among the arts. History proves that the Italian people are creative and resourceful, just as it proves the creativity of Italian culture as a whole. Unfortunately, I’m not convinced that all this creativity is applied elsewhere. In politics and the social sphere, it hasn’t been enough to break through the provincialism that currently strangles us.

RT Certainly. It’s equal parts instinct, pragmatism and love of beauty.

How has it evolved over the years, and where’s it going now?

SP Apart from a few specific cases, it seems to me that between the ‘80s and the ‘00s, the affirmation of the role of Made in Italy in the context of international creativity folded in upon itself, due to an insufficient ability to optimize and capitalize local resources.

RT History teaches us that being first, whether culturally or economically, is a dynamic and often cyclical phenomenon. After an indisputable Italian reign, the currents started being fed by different sources of creativity, undergoing contaminations of various forms, whether Japanese, East European, Latin American. Creativity took on a multi-ethnic and global character, but that which remained incontrovertibly Italian is and will always be the ability to represent elegance and beauty, informed by our own cultural heritage, in a product that is qualitatively perfect thanks to artisanal skills that have become extremely rare.

What has happened to our design culture?

SP I see Italy as a country of romantic dreamers. Working in fashion, I’ve had the chance to believe in those creative dreamers who have risen to great success – people like Gianni Versace, Giorgio Armani, Prada. But success is business, and sooner or later business absorbs the emotivity that creatives need because it’s vital. Brands too, as a consequence, suffer from this and lose their instinct. Creative urgency becomes duty.

RT Design has never been one of the strongest drivers of Italian creativity, which

historically has found magnificent expressions thanks to the practice of patronage, whether ecclesiastic or aristocratic. Design, in the sense of a multicultural and social organization, is still a long process, about which Italians still have a lot to learn.

Is there still an ‘Italian touch’ in fashion and design? Where and how does it manifest itself?

SP I don’t know if there’s such a thing as an Italian touch in fashion or design. Perhaps it’s more apparent in design. In Italian fashion there are still stylistic identities that remain coherent in expressing their own personal aesthetic. This I find admirable and worthy.

RT The Italian touch can be found in every product of quality, both in fashion and furniture. The Italians are still an invaluable treasury for lots of international companies that want to borrow our aesthetic and taste.

How was Italian creativity expressed in the past? And today?

SP The variables that can cause you to lose passion for a project are too many. They’re frightening, unnerving; you think they stimulate evolution when they are actually suffocating. The creative spirit suffers the consequences. Initially, success and expansion, like mission and passion, are drivers. But it is precisely the desire to succeed that deflects self-criticism and knocks objectivity off balance in favor of self-referential, overstated subjectivity. The mistake is in the scale of priorities, not in the mission. Today we are evaluated more for the volumes we move than for the culture and taste we truly represent. We prefer quantity to the quality of those who really appreciate it. If you put the brand before your heart, it’s time to get out!

RT Historically, the visual arts and architecture represented our creativity. Product design and craftsmanship represent it today.

When it comes to fashion, are we a nation of inventors or merchants?

SP I would say both. Geographically we’re a jewel. RT Both. And this is what has made our success possible.

What is the most profoundly Italian feature of your work?

SP Elegance, which everyone acknowledges, and then the relativity in contrast with my ambition.

RT The representation of strength and seduction, both male and female.

And the least Italian?

SP Curiosity, and an ability to be self-critical.

RT The capacity to challenge tradition and break the mold, along with a repertoire of imagery that is sometimes even darker than reality.

Is Italy a country for young people?

SP It could be, if it stimulated young people to experiment instead of merely instructing them and abandoning them to increasingly tighter spaces. Young people pile up in forgotten corners, where they can’t breathe. By guarding them instead of sharing with them, their creative energies implode.

RT Yes, no question. However, young people today unfortunately limit themselves to imitating or reinterpreting the past. They should be looking instead for a personal vision of style.

Does one really have to emigrate to find recognition?

SP There’s a world outside of Italy. Luckily, if you want, if you have access. Being or feeling Italian doesn’t mean that your career can’t happen somewhere other than your home country or culture.

RT When I started out, it was almost impossible for an Italian kid to get established and recognized in Italy. I have the feeling that things have changed, that many taboos have fallen and that certain paths are easier. Indeed, even Italy has opened up to international currents.

Do you feel Italian? How and why?

SP I think my Italian-ness lies in my taste. I often express it spontaneously with a sense of elegance that is uniquely and entirely Italian.

RT I feel Italian in everything that has to do with the sensitivity to beauty, quality and craftsmanship. Even my love for things that might at first seem unexpected or unusual, there’s always a deep connection, sometimes hidden, with my Italian roots and culture.

Where do we need to start to reestablish the creative class, and other things as well, in this country?

SP Education, as always. In addition to being creative, we Italians also make things. Without manufacturing, creativity can’t be expressed. Without creativity, manufacturing becomes ordinary industry. The concept of being the best gets lost. And in my opinion it’s a noble and healthy concept, because it’s synonymous with continuous enquiry and research.

RT We need to start from a new civic sense that includes entrepreneurial spirit and solidarity, the ethic of sacrifice and the ability to work as a team.

Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future?

SP I’m a pessimist. RT I’m optimistic. With a touch of pessimism.

Is the future of creativity local or global?

SP Global. RT Global, like everything else. What mistakes wouldn’t you make again?

SP It’s impossible for me not to make mistakes. I’ve learned from every mistake that you shouldn’t listen to others, that trusting them is fine but not trusting them is better. Professionally, I have no regrets whatsoever.

RT I wouldn’t work seven days a week! Even God rested on Sunday. • original text page 522