Politicians hold first face to face

"Don't send along the wrong people." NZ First leader Winston Peters

Winston Peters says he is ‘‘between the devil and the deep blue sea’’ while waiting for the special votes to be counted on Saturday.

‘‘The whole thing has been depicted as one man holding the country to ransom. I belong to a very democratic caucus and board and we haven’t lasted 24 years by not being democratic,’’ the NZ First leader told media at the end of his meetings with both National and Labour yesterday.

Peters pointed out he was not referring to political parties when talking about the difficult position he was in but that it was a lose-lose situation at the moment.

‘‘We just can’t win. You can’t win with the public, you can’t win with the media, you can’t win with the commentariat and you can’t win with the people who believe it’s all about first-past-the-post even though it’s an MMP environment, and they just bang on day in and day out.’’

Peters also said there was no guarantee the result of the special votes would even be known on Saturday, which could further delay negotiations - though it would not change his self-imposed deadline of October 12 for making a decision.

A spokeswoman for the Electoral Commission said they were well on track to meet the Saturday deadline.

The three negotiation teams were revealed on Thursday but part of the protocols agreed to in the meetings was that teams could change depending on subject matter during negotiations.

‘‘We’ll put specialists in when specialists are required,’’ Peters said.

Heading into the meeting with Peters on Thursday morning were deputy NZ First leader Ron Mark, MP Tracey Martin, Peters’ aide and confidante Paul Carrad, as well as chief of staff David Broome and staffer Kirsty Christison.

Bill English’s team included senior MPS Todd Mcclay, Gerry Brownlee and Steven Joyce, along with outgoing chief of staff Wayne Eagleson. One of English’s key advisers, Cameron Burrows, was also seen walking into the meeting room.

Labour’s team consisted of leader and deputy Jacinda Ardern and Kelvin Davis, former Labour deputy prime minister Sir Michael Cullen, finance spokesman Grant Robertson, key adviser Mike Munro and chief of staff Neale Jones.

Peters said no policy had been discussed in either meeting, it was strictly about protocol.

‘‘We need to have protocols in which we’ll conduct these talks with both parties so they’re fair, confidential and above board.’’

Those protocols included agreeing to meet in a certain place, change negotiating teams depending on subject matter, keeping information confidential and respecting that confidentiality, which also extended to media.

‘‘Otherwise we might as well hire Westpac Stadium and turn on the lights and loud speaker and just go for it. We’re not going to have that circus,’’ Peters said.

Short and sweet

It was a 30-minute short and sweet meeting between Peters, English and their negotiating teams on Thursday morning.

Later in the afternoon Ardern left the room flanked by her team after only 25 minutes.

Following the meeting with National, Peters said the talks had gone ‘‘very well’’ and that the meeting wasn’t unusually brief, ‘‘it went as expected’’.

English has not commented since their discussions but Ardern said the meeting was ‘‘positive’’ and ‘‘a great start’’.

The meetings are part of preliminary discussions, ahead of official coalition negotiations that will start after the special votes are returned on Saturday. More than 380,000 special votes were cast, accounting for 15 per cent of the vote.

The Left is expecting to pick up a couple more seats in the specials, as they have done in the past.

On Thursday morning Peters said ‘‘luck won’t come into it’’, referring to the coalition discussions - but the personalities were important.

‘‘Don’t send along the wrong people,’’ he said.

‘‘If you were in a commercial setting, you’d be very careful as to who you sent. You wouldn’t want somebody’s past behaviour and obnoxiousness to be part of the problem.’’