Roger Waters
‘Modern music is rubbish’
‘Iam not interested in music,’’ declares Roger Waters, lounging in the sun-soaked courtyard of West Hollywood’s rockstar-frequented Sunset Marquis hotel. It’s 1.30pm, the day after his third sold-out gig at Los Angeles’ Staples Center, and the 73-year-old former Pink Floyd frontman has just emerged from his suite, sipping espresso and joking, ‘‘Good morning‘‘ to his security guard, who is showing his New Zealand tattoos.
Waters takes a seat and raises his concerns about finding enough LEDs for the sets for his upcoming NZ shows, after which I ask if he’s familiar with any Kiwi music. His response is a curious one from someone who has forged an incredible legacy in music, from the mind-blowing success of Pink Floyd records like The Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here to his solo work.
‘‘I’m interested in my music and there are artists who I follow, but I never listen to the radio and I wouldn’t dream of hunting out new music,’’ he explains. ‘‘Sometimes I become obsessed if I suddenly discover something – [like] this Nigerian hiphop artist, Nneka, who’s brilliant. But pop music? Nah.
‘‘I resent the dumbing down of it all. People pat me on the back saying, ‘Thank God someone’s actually saying something in popular music now.’ Most of it [today], with all due respect, is entirely vacuous, empty and content-free. It’s just sugar.’’
Waters has impressively weathered a sugar-free career spanning more than five decades in the industry. But through the next hour, it quickly becomes apparent why music, beyond his own, isn’t his greatest interest. Between conversations of war, history, his hatred for US President Donald Trump, social media, and how he ‘‘invented rock theatre,’’ it’s clear that activism and theatrical creation are two of Waters’ greatest passions.
The two collide in his spectacular Us + Them show, coming to our shores in January. The visual feast boasts giant HD screens, a replica of the Battersea Power Station, his signature inflatable pig, and vocals from indie-pop duo Lucius. After each gig, Waters stays up analysing footage and noting improvements for the next stop. ‘‘I’ve always been interested in the theatre of it all.’’
The villain in his theatrical tale? Donald Trump, who appears in photoshopped images during ‘‘Pigs’’ – dressed in Nazi gear, wearing lipstick and with his head doctored on to a pig. Later, the controversial president’s most cringe-worthy quotes appear on screens.
The seeds of the concert extravaganza, which features Waters’ and Pink Floyd’s greatest hits, were born last October when the Brit headlined the Desert Trip music festival in California. He still chuckles remembering the call from Paul Tollett, who runs Coachella, announcing plans for a festival featuring Waters, the Rolling Stones and Paul McCartney.
‘‘I went, ‘Are you f...ing kidding me?’ Then I asked who my opening act was and he said The Who. I went, ‘Perfect. I can’t wait to see Townshend’s face!’ They had 500,000 ticket requests in three hours. It was over-subscribed beyond all imagination, so I thought that was a real opportunity.
‘‘I have an absolutely direct, strong, simple, political message and I’m going to shout it from the rooftops all over the world.’’
That includes New Zealand, where he hits Auckland’s Spark Arena on January 24, and Dunedin’s Forsyth Barr Stadium on January 30.
‘‘I performed there on one of my earlier tours with the pig,’’ he recalls. ‘‘I would get locals to write on it and I remember there were Maori, who had big beefs and they covered the pig in beautiful artwork, but also in serious political messages because they were still disgruntled about the way they had been treated.’’
His most recent visit, on 2012’s The Wall Live tour, saw him selling almost 40,000 tickets for four sold-out shows.
In his downtime, he went fly-fishing near Taupo. ‘‘It was beautiful. I love fly-fishing. The best days are gone because there’s too much pressure in those streams now, but I will definitely try to fish on this tour.’’
Waters’ upcoming shows come almost 30 years to the day that Pink Floyd rocked Auckland’s Western Springs stadium to a reported crowd of more than 80,000.
By then, Waters had left the group amid creative differences and conflict with guitarist David Gilmour. Launching a legal dispute over use of the group’s name and music, the estranged bandmates settled out of court, but it was nearly 18 years before he joined them on stage again, for 2005’s Live 8.
Meanwhile, Waters launched a successful solo career, culminating in his latest release, Is This the Life We Really Want?
Having spent more than half his life in the industry, he’s critical of the advancements that have shadowed his longevity.
‘‘The worst thing that’s happened is Spotify and all those streaming services that steal the music. We get paid nothing for it.
‘‘And, the making of the record is now looked at as a marketing exercise and the actual money is in product placement, cosmetics, clothing, social media. It’s totally consumer-oriented and has f...-all to do with music – which would be fine if it weren’t squeezing out people who have something to say. It may be that we won’t see the next generation’s Neil Young because he’ll have to get a job since he won’t be able to make money from music.
‘‘When I was a kid, you could go for 10 years just about making a living while you developed an audience, voice and learned your craft. It’s sad. There are people who battle through, but it’s very difficult.’’
That social media explosion is another nuance.
‘‘Don’t get him started on that,’’ jokes a rep earlier, after I observe how refreshing it is to see fans watching his LA show through their eyes outnumber those looking through their phones.
"The worst thing that's happened is Spotify and all those streaming services that steal the music. We get paid nothing for it." Roger Waters
For Waters, the image he sees looking into crowds today is starkly different to his early days.
‘‘It’s pitiful. I hate it. It’s gone too far. Those people looking at a phone screen instead of actually being there are wasting their time. They say it’s important to share the experience with friends and I say, ‘You’re not even experiencing the experience!’ ‘‘
"Writing quite a lot of quite good songs over quite a long period of time, always being honest, and I'm better at putting on rock theatre than anyone else." Roger Waters on his longevity.
He scoffs at mention of his own social media accounts, before conceding it’s ‘‘cool’’ to be able to share announcements and clips with fans.
‘‘But does the world really need another 100,000 videos shot on people’s phones, all the f ..... same, and taking away their experience of being at this theatrical event?
‘‘At the end of Comfortably Numb I walk along the front row and you’d be amazed how many people [turn for a selfie]. I’m coming along – the person they’ve come to see – and they turn their back. Sometimes I almost burst out laughing [thinking], ‘You f .... moron.’’’
Despite his aversion to the digital age, Waters’ career is something he has retained control and success of. The keys to his longevity are simple: ‘‘Writing quite a lot of quite good songs over quite a long period of time, always being honest, and I’m better at putting on rock theatre than anyone else. I invented it in the 70s and I’ve found my place.’’
‘‘I’m a writer and director more than anything else,’’ he adds later. ‘‘I’ve discovered I’m a performer as well, but I came across that late in life. I love it, but it’s not my main [passion]. So, it is what it is, and if people come, I’m happy.’’
Although he recently suggested this will be his last tour, Waters isn’t ruling anything out.
‘‘I don’t know... I’m 73 and when I finish this tour, I’ll be 75. I’m very fit, but I couldn’t do this when I was 85. It would be weird, don’t you think?’’
‘‘Did you not think at 63, it would be weird to still be doing this at 73?’’ I ask.
‘‘Yeah, maybe. We’ll see. I’ll take it day-by-day.
‘‘The challenge of improving the show all the time is what keeps me doing it. And, this show is generating more love and a communal feeling of compassion. The message is that every human is our brother and sister, and we have a duty of care to provide safety nets, look after refugees, tear down walls and [help] increase the general sum of happiness for [everyone].’’
It’s a message he will doubtlessly continue to share in his post-touring days, during which his eldest son, 40-year-old pianist Harry, will continue his father’s musical legacy.
The four-time divorcee also has daughter, India, from his second marriage, to Lady Carolyne Christie, and son, Jack, from his third, to Priscilla Phillips.
‘‘If one’s children do anything that fulfils them and is productive, that’s a great thing. It’s easy for kids to become entitled and lazy, so it can be a burden if you have a successful parent. I’m proud my kids are doing something. My youngest son is doing film studies and he’s definitely got talent. Harry is a great [piano] player – he was in my band up until a few months ago and he’s working on making a living in LA. And India works as a psychotherapist… she’s got plenty of experience from this crazy family!’’
His own father died fighting in World War II in 1944, when Waters was just 5 months old, but his influence remains strong.
‘‘My father had the courage of his convictions and he died for them, so that’s a big lesson [and] something I pass on to my kids. I haven’t died from having the courage of my convictions, but I’ve come under huge, malicious attack from the Zionist lobby, who accuse me of being a neo-fascist Nazi and call me anti-Semitic because I criticise the Israeli government.’’
He starts another fervent discussion on the Israeli-Palestine conflict, then pauses.
‘‘Anyway… there are people who care. And, I’m one of them.’’
Roger Waters’ Us + Them plays Auckland’s Spark Arena, January 24, and Dunedin, Forsyth Barr, January 30. Tickets on sale noon, September 8 (Live Nation pre-sale, 1pm, September 6 to 5pm, September 7).