Anzac Day: Learn from those who lived the history
‘We do remember them’
One of the pieces of work historian Bruce Cavanagh is most proud of is a panel at the Gore RSA outlining the timeline of New Zealand’s involvement in World Wars I and II.
At the top, he’s made a subtle change to a traditional Anzac phrase. Instead of “We will remember them” it reads, “We do remember them”.
“We do remember them. That’s one reason why the RSA continues,” he said, solemnly.
It’s also why he challenges the children he speaks to as part of his heritage work to go home and find one person in their family who served. “It may be a great-uncle, but that’s great. Take his pride.”
And if that person was still living, Cavanagh encouraged children to ask them about their experiences.
Because as historians and archivists point out, oral histories provide rich accounts with far more detail and emotion than documents or photos ever could.
The challenge is a fitting way to commemorate the sacrifices of war on Anzac Day.
Cavanagh, the Gore RSA historian and heritage research officer for the Gore District Council, said it was perhaps too late to collect oral histories from World War I and II veterans. But Kiwi soldiers have fought in Korea, Malaya, Borneo and Vietnam in the 20th century and more than 3500 soldiers were deployed in Afghanistan before New Zealand withdrew in 2021.
“We need to get some of these young ones talking,” Cavanagh said, although he acknowledged that for those who served in Afghanistan, the memories might still be raw.
He encouraged them to instead share stories about the good or funny things that happened abroad.
Cavanagh remembers hearing his dad’s stories; they were usually funny and about his misadventures during cold nights in Cairo.
The National Army Museum’s marketing and visitor experience manager Nicola Bennett pointed out that while diaries were recordings of incidents as they happened, oral histories were more emotive.
“Often the [diary] entries are in very brief sentences, especially those that were written out in the fields and trenches. Soldiers probably had little time to elaborate and or think about how they feel at that particular moment. What they were doing was just recording what had just happened.”
Interviewing veterans gives them a chance to speak at their own pace, pausing to recollect.
“Time also allows the interviewee to see an experience from the past in a different way, potentially adding more emotion to what might have been captured at the time in a written record,” Bennett said.
“History tells us what happened, but it’s the first-hand accounts, their thoughts, their feelings and reflections of what they experienced that tell the real story. It’s the personal stories that bring history alive as we go some way to learning what it might have been like for these ordinary men and women serving in extraordinary circumstances, and so far away from home.”
This year, the museum in Waiouru will again be commemorating Anzac Day by partnering with the Voices of Gallipoli project to read the words of Kiwi soldiers aloud.
Southland Oral History Project coordinator Rosie Stather notes that the stories of Kiwis who served in New Zealand or those that were left behind were just as interesting.
“There are around 600 interviews in the collection and capturing war stories is often incidental as part of interviews,” she said.
Oral history was a particularly good vehicle for learning about women’s stories, Stather said.
“Their resourcefulness comes through. It’s the personal, domestic stuff you get in oral histories, particularly for women.”
And during these interviews, one could ask about the sounds and sights and hear the emotion in their voice, she added.
“You hear people talk about memories from so long ago, yet it’s so clear for them.”
Stather’s advice for interviewing family is to start with simple, fact based questions like: “Where were you born?” or “What’s your earliest memory?”
She suggests talks about things you can relate to yourself, like school experiences, or hobbies and past times, and asking follow-up questions – like “Where did you live? What did it look like?” – to fill in details.
Stather notes it’s important to give the interviewee time to respond and to understand that their stories won’t always been linear. “For a lot of elderly people, once they start talking, one story with lead into another. People don’t think in an orderly way.”
And you don’t need specialist equipment to record interviews.
“Use what you’ve got. It’s the capturing of it that’s important,” Stather said.
“It’s good for families and communities to know what came before.”