Immunity clog in corruption fight – Tsav
A former Lagos State Commissioner of Police, Alhaji AbubakarTsav, in this interview expressed concern over the fight against corruption, immunity clause and insecurity threatening the nation’s unity among other matters. Excerpts:
How would you rate the present administration?
I would say that President Muhammadu Buhari has done much to reduce insurgency in the North-East and restore peace in that area. But while he is defeating Boko Haram, Biafran agitation is coming up. They have vowed that Buhari cannot stop them from actualising their intentions. And if that is true, then we may be going into another civil war. Unfortunately, these Biafran agitators were either children or were not even born during the civil war.They don’t know the pains and that is why they are doing what they are doing. And they are doing it for selfish reasons because if you look carefully, you would see that there is no state in this country where there are no Igbos. Igbos have houses and businesses in every part of the country. Their businesses are doing well to the point that some of them are not even thinking of going back to their states.
Unlike the previous years when you had Igbos going home for Christmas, now many of them don’t go home, because of threats to their lives, kidnapping and several other issues.
In the area of corruption, Buhari is doing very well but, I think that we can only reduce corruption if governors are stripped of their immunity. If they are stripped of their immunity then we can fight corruption very well because as it is now, governors are the ones involved in corruption. When there is any case involving people close to them, they go and use money to bribe their way through. And when they themselves are involved in a case of corruption, you cannot investigate and take them to court because of immunity.
Although some lawyers argue that you can investigate governors despite their immunity, but you cannot take them to court. When somebody is involved in a police case, the governors would call the commissioner of police and tell him not to take action on it.
Buhari may do his best but as soon as he steps down, corruption will continue in this country. And the worst thing is that the more people cry about corruption, the more corruption grows because nobody recognises those who are really against corruption. That is the most worrisome aspect of it. For instance, we at the Public Complaints Commission received a petition from pensioners that they were included in the bailout funds but were not paid. They had protested but nobody is saying anything about it because they are no more of value to the nation.
During the era of former President Goodluck Jonathan, we understand that there were many, who were close to him that were getting cover while the EFCC was looking for them. So, I think we are joking in this country. If Buhari wants to succeed, he must get people who have complete dislike for corruption to work with him. That is the only way.
Are you implying that corruption war cannot succeed in Nigeria?
That is exactly what I am saying. Corruption war cannot succeed because people who should stop it are neck deep in it. And they are the people advising the president. We are only hearing of recovery of money. We have never heard of any conviction.The worst thing is that we don’t have details of those people, who have refunded these monies. Let them blacklist these people so that when we see them we can mock them. The fight is in an exercise in futility because people who are seriously accused of corruption and taken to court were unfortunately re-elected.
Do you think Buhari can rescue the nation, considering the problems facing it?
At least, within the last one year, Buhari has shown that he is better than Jonathan. Jonathan was presiding over corruption. He did not have the capacity to check corruption and he was a ‘yes’ person. Otherwise how can a president approve such a huge sum of money meant for security and then allow it to be diverted to funding election? The man [Jonathan] lacked the ability to rule. In that area, Buhari has done better than him. But, whether he will succeed or not would depends on unfolding events. For instance, look at the time he took to sign the budget. We expect him to have trust in his appointees, but, he had to go through the budget himself. That is not good enough. It means that he has no confidence in his ministers. Buhari should rely on his appointees, and if he finds anyone of them wanting he should kick that person out.
Criticisms have trailed Buhari’s trips abroad, what’s your take on that?
Nigeria is not an island. Nigeria has earned a very bad name for corruption. So, it is up to this man, who has professed to be against corruption, to go to other cities, exchange ideas with and find out from them how they can help Nigeria. He also needs to plead with them to see how they can help repatriate stolen money. So, I think his frequent trips are very good for this country.
What else do you think Buhari can do to strengthen the anti-corruption war?
He should try and investigate all former heads of the EFCC and ICPC. This is because they must have suppressed so many cases and that is why we have a lot of criminals today holding offices. Where they are found wanting, they should also be sanctioned. He should also establish corruption courts because there are many competent lawyers that he can appoint as judges, so that all those who have corruption cases can be brought there and tried.
In the case of Niger Delta militants, I think Buhari should call the genuine leaders and discuss with them because no matter what happens, it would end up with signing an agreement. Even if it means calling Tompolo, too, he should invite him, give them guarantee but not to arrest them.
The issue of cattle ranches and grazing reserves has been on the front burner for some time now. What in your opinion about it?
The difference between ranching and reserve is that while one is a place to take cattle to graze, the other is a carved area to keep the animals. We have problems in this country created by nature because during the raining season, we have grasses in the North and when it is dry season, the grasses wither away so cattle owners have to move to the South to feed their animals, which is their fundamental human right. So the Fulanis have the right to go to any place and carry out their lawful business. But, in other countries, you hardly see cows outside because they are kept in ranches. If they create ranches it would help us because grazing reserves can be created only down South. If such is done, then they should be allowed only within a period of time to do what they want and leave.