INTERVIEW
How does contribute to economy?
the the railway nation’s
In fact, the sector is very viable because it is a massive whole facility. For instance, if you have a shortage of petrol in the North, just one trip of a loaded train from Port-Harcourt would be enough to solve the problem. All the risks of accident and diversion would not be there and it would be at a cheap cost. Also, through the rail, manufacturers would get their items at cheap costs. So the cost of goods would definitely go down, and the multiplier effect is that there would be economic boom. This would also reduce the number of people going into road transport business, and road accidents would be reduced drastically. Again, the huge money the country spends on construction and maintenance of roads would be saved, and the lifespan of our roads would last. The rail system would take away all these burdens and the economy will move. You will find out that countries that are moving forward economically have good railway system. So there is the need to go back to the railway system.
What happened at the prime minister’s office during the coup?
I stayed at the premier’s office for only three months. I was there when the coup took place, after which General Hassan Usman Katsina became a military governor. What happened was that on January 15, I went to the office around 7am and noticed that it was deserted. I only met few workers. Later on, a friend of mine called me on phone, saying that soldiers had surrounded the communication box at the post office. Shortly after that, rumours filtered that the Sardauna was killed. We couldn’t ascertain the number of people killed in the coup. Later, Ali Akilu phoned from somewhere and said he was safe and quickly dropped the phone because he didn’t want to be located. We were sent to various locations to ascertain the true situation of things.
We called the office of the prime minister to know what happened. At that time we had seen his secretary, Ali Akilu. There was a phone call from the Kaduna airport by a white man, saying that some soldiers came to the airport with the intention to take over. He asked whether he should allow them or not. We advised him to let them do whatever they wanted as long as they would be in peace. Later, Alhaji Abba Zoro also phoned and informed us that some soldiers had stormed the radio station to make some announcement. He was seeking for our advice.
How many of you were at the
prime minister’s office at that time?
I think we were four - I, Liman Ciroma, Chief Sunday Awoniyi and Alhaji Gidado Idris, who was the secretary to the government. We advised Zoro to listen to the soldiers and not to argue with them. So he allowed them to do the recordings. He called us again to tell us that the man had announced that he took over the government and his name was Major Nzeogwu Kuduna. That was what happened. And since a new government had taken over, things stabilised in our office and life continued.
Can you share the trauma you went through?
We didn’t find it really difficult as such because, first of all, certain things were unbelievable. Secondly, there had been rumours of coup and Sardauna himself was aware. But he didn’t know when and how it would take place. When he returned from Umrah (lesser hajj), he stopped over at Kano. He was at the Government House when he was advised to proceed to Sokoto because there was the feeling that there may be coup. But he refused, saying it was not an issue. He went to Kaduna.
A day before the coup, Chief Akintola, the minister of Western Region came to him and said, ‘Sir, this coup you have been talking about may take place tonight. Here is an aircraft; you can join us to Niger or somewhere.’ But Sardauna said he was a Muslim and would not leave Kaduna. So Akintola left, and in the night, the coup took place. So it didn’t come as a surprise to many of us. What may interest you is that all the people who Sardauna trusted ran away. Only two people, whose names I will not mention, demanded that he should be given a decent burial.
After sometime, I was posted to Jos as a district officer in charge of township. I went there on April 1967. I was in Jos when the creation of states was announced in May 1967. We were to do a seminar at Mambilla Plateau. Hassan Usman, who was also there on a tour, told me that he was overruled by other senior civil servants to effect my posting to Jos. You can see how effective the service was at that time.
As you noted, the civil service is no longer what it used to be. Where did the problem come from?
I think it all started during the regime of the late General Murtala Ramat Muhammad. He destroyed the civil service through his reform. When he came with his own system of reform, a large number of good people were thrown out of the service for no reason. He left quite a number of bad ones in the service. That was a mistake. That’s where the problem started. People lost confidence in government and started stealing public fund for the rainy day.
What do you think Nigeria should do to improve the quality of civil service?
Well, even if a prophet was sent by God, I don’t think he would correct Nigeria. This is because a prophet is only given a mandate; it is Allah that bends our minds. It is difficult to change Nigerians. Nigeria is the most religious country but without God. We do not obey our religious injunctions. First of all, we must really think of religion and God. We must always remember that one day we will account for our deeds. In a nutshell, we should have the fear of God. We have to be kind and patient. As long as you are ready to cheat whoever is around you and he will cheat the next then, we are in trouble.
All the civil service rules are there. There is nothing wrong with the rules, but there is impunity in the system and nobody is doing anything about it. If somebody knew that he would be dragged to the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) or the Independent Corrupt Practices Commission (ICPC), he won’t commit the crime.
My advice is that Nigeria should introduce a kind of frequent symposium. Let us have a consensus on what is really wrong with Nigeria. In other words, we should identify our problems because we have to believe in some core values, which must cut across religions and ethnicity. We should go back to those rules and apply them appropriately. There should be the will to impose them and there should be no sacred cows when it comes to implementation.
After the creation of states, you were posted to Kano; did you find it difficult to handle your new schedule of duty?
After the announcement I stayed in Kaduna for three months to complete my assignment because of its specialised nature. I was to be in charge of security and cabinet office, which meant that we were to set the pattern of government. The first decision we took was on whether the name of the state was okay and whether the capital was okay.
At the meeting, we all agreed that the name of the state should be Kano and its capital also Kano. That was the proposal. I worked with the secretary to the state government, Hawaidi; Alhaji Sani Dambatta, Dr. Magaji Dambatta, Alhaji Balarabe Isma’ila and few expatriates. One year after, I became permanent secretary and worked in several ministries, including finance, health, and education.
Because of the training we had earlier, we found it easy to handle our new offices. We just carried on and improved on the earlier experiences we had. I was appointed the first chairman of the National Youths Service Committee of Kano State. It was directed that anybody who would head the committee must have a degree so that the corps members would not look down on him.
When did you retire from service?
I retired on October 31, 1979.
After retirement, where did you go?
I took up a job in the First Bank as an assistant general manager in charge of the North, on March 12, 1980. That was three months after my retirement. I continued in the bank until I reached the position of general manager and retired on December 31, 1995. I was 60 years then. When I left, I was trying to put things together when suddenly, the bank appointed me as a part time director for three years. I continued as part time director for 10 years.
In August 2006, we were about to go to India for a retreat when I told myself that it was high time for me to leave. I typed my resignation letter and kept it at home before we travelled to India, with the intention to tender it immediately we returned to Nigeria. That was what happened on August 21, 2006.
Also, when the former President Olusegun Obasanjo came with his pension reform act in 2004, I was chosen to be among the custodians of pension funds. I continued with the job until September 30, 2014. Again, on my own volition, I resigned.
From the core civil service to the banking industry; did you find the job challenging?
I really found things strange. As a core civil servant I saw many things in the bank that were new to me. For instance, if you wanted some money you would just tell somebody and he would bring it to you, unlike in the government where things were strict. So I found the procedures very fast when compared to the civil service. I also found things that were very complicated in the bank. But when I consulted I would solve them within a short time and the bankers would be surprised.
My experience in the civil service helped me a lot because I I think it all started during the regime of the late General Murtala Ramat Muhammad. He destroyed the civil service through his reform. When he came with his own system of reform, a large number of good people were thrown out of the service for no reason was not worried about those things that made them worry. Although the banking sector was different, I didn’t find things difficult. I rather found things easy. In the banking sector, if there is fraud, the culprit would be dismissed, but in the civil service you are reassigned.
At what age did you get married?
My wife was brought to me from Ringim on April 12, 1955 when I was in Funtua working in the Nigerian Railway Corporation. Three days after, I was transferred to Jos. We had to move from Funtua to Zaria where I joined a train to Jos while they joined another train to Kano. I had five children with her and many grandchildren, among them charted accountants, electrical engineers and so on.
You are 81 now and you look very strong, what is the secret behind this?
There is no secret. It is the will of God. What I keep on telling my children is that they should always be themselves; they should not do things to impress others. Rather, they should do things to impress themselves. They must also set a standard of honesty, hard work and check themselves even in the dark. They should also not be afraid of man but respect people.
Are you on any special diet?
On a serious note, I eat everything I want. But there is a general advice I follow: if anybody reaches the age of 35 and above, you should take minimum salt, and no oil, no pepper and things like that. I try as much as possible to follow this advice.
How long have you been into farming?
I have been into farming since 1973, and I am doing it for commercial purpose. I tried many things before, but I have now restricted myself to rice production. My farm is in Bunkure Local Government Area of Kano State.