• Only a new Race Of PeOPle can SucceSSfully fight cORRuPtiOn in nigeRia•
ity, so where you came from was irrelevant. The people living in Lagos elected Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe in Lord Milverton (Arthur Richards) legislative council, under the platform of Democratic Party/NCNC alliance. From the same platform, Prince Adeleke Adedoyin, a son of Akarigbo of Shagamu, Ijebu Remo was elected 2nd Lagos member. Dr. Yinka Olorunimbe, who you can say is indeed an indigenous Lagosian was elected 3rd Lagos member. So, Zik, born in Zungeru in the Northern part of Nigeria, while his parents were from Onitsha in the Eastern part, became the 1st elected member of the legislative council in Lagos. That was the Lagos I grew up in.
Mallam Umaru Altine from Northern Nigeria became the first Mayor of Enugu and Dr. Ajibade, whose roots were in Lagos, was a councillor in Port Harcourt. I pray that Nigeria would go back to those old days and not these days of ethnicity.
Since the return to civil rule in 1999, what is your impression about the administration of Lagos?
Brigadier Bolaji Johnson laid a sound foundation upon the creation of Lagos State. It was not easy to move from one part of Lagos to another. To get to Badagry, the Western part of Lagos State, you had to travel 1st to Otta by road because there was no road directly linking Badagry from Lagos. So, his first achievement was to actualise the plan of Lagos Executive Development Plan (LEDP) between Lagos and Badagry. There were others, who laid good foundations for Lagos before 1999. Bolaji stands out clearly as one of them.
Well, there have been rapid developments in the state since 1999. A clear example is where we are today, Victoria Island. By clear regulation, Victoria Island consisted of buildings of not more than two floors - the ground and first floors, except for the commercial area. Commercial areas in Victoria Island at that time comprised Sanusi Fafunwa, by Ademola Alakija by Hopewell Street back to Sanusi Fafunwa. Those were the only areas that could have more than two floors. But they were not more than four floors at best.
If you compare it with what we have today, with the 30 storey office blocks at Akin Adesola, Victoria Island was purely residential, but now it is wholly commercial with sky rise buildings, and if you go down from Victoria Island to Lekki, Ajah, you will see the physical evidence of developments. So, in terms of developments, yes there have been developments over the years since the return to civil rule.
Let’s go to the national front. Two years of the administration of the APC government, do you think the narrative is actually changing?
There has been little change. APC is a collection of likes and unlikes, so there is no cohesion in party policy and execution of policies. APC, remember, was an amalgam of AC, CPC, ANPP, PDP – all the disgruntled members of these other parties coming together with opposition party, it has not really changed colour because the dispute among the leadership still reflects their earlier background and that makes governance of the country impossible. Evidence of that was soon after the election, there was a problem as to who would become the leader of the Senate, and we landed with a divided Senate, and we ended up with a Senate leader, who had support from opposition party and the ruling party, that is not how it should be.
So, the house is not in order yet, the same thing happened in the House of Representatives and to make matters worse, the Legislature assumes the role of not only the legislature but also of the Executive. They have invaded the Executive areas of government. They are not just legislating; they are also executing projects and they dabble into Executive functions. That is utter confusion at Abuja. A clear example is constituency projects. There should be nothing like constituency projects. The Executive is to execute the works not the legislators, and it amounts to a clear abuse. So who is governing, executing or legislating? There is some confusion.
It is not their business. There is nowhere in the world that practises a federal system – South Africa, Canada, Ghana, Australia even the Soviet Russia or Germany – there is nowhere, where the legislators involve themselves with execution of works. I know what I am talking about. I was federal commissioner of works for almost eight years, although that was during the war years and military rule. Legislators don’t execute works.
One of the promises of this administration while canvassing for votes in 2015 was to battle corruption and that is almost becoming a mess now if it is not already in that state. What can you make of the fight against corruption?
I wouldn’t call it a mess. The President has spent only two years in office and I believe only two or three of his promises are to fight corruption, combat insecurity and to revive the economy. In the area of corruption, I think he is making some leeway. Corruption is fighting back but he is making effort. The legal process slows down the fight on corruption. To pronounce someone guilty when the court says he is not guilty and not before – all these processes slow down the fight against corruption. There are other aspects that you can be a bit critical about. We hear of all these huge sums of money. You can’t even believe when you hear about $21billion, it is just unimaginable! You begin to wonder if Nigeria has that much money, but they found that amount cash in some places.
So, the fight against corruption is not a fight for four years, it will take quite a long time because Nigerians don’t learn lessons. We made corruption something to be proud of. We don’t learn from those that had been charged with corruption in the past and disgraced. These days corruption is a matter of pride. Somebody sentenced to prison and comes out of prison, goes straight to the church to worship and dances with people celebrating with him. Someone charged on corruption abroad returns to Nigeria and people are happy to welcome him back? Corruption is now like a badge of honour, which people now proudly showcase round the society.
So, corruption fight is going to take many years; it will outlive Buhari. Until we create a new race of people with civic education for people at schools at the grassroots and for those of us, who are grownups to have extra mural classes and turn us into Nigerians and not Igbos, Yorubas or Hausas; to love one another, to love our country, to work for our country and not to work for our pockets, not to steal public funds but to regard public funds as sacred, entrusted to you to manage for our general good.
Today, it is just me and me alone. So, it is a huge battle. We haven’t even started civic education, so, the children that are in primary and secondary schools and see the man, who has been charged with corruption, been to prison and comes out to still be heartily accepted by the society, will also want to join the cue. So, until you go down and start huge civic education for young and old, corruption will not disappear.
As a lawyer of note, how did you feel when some justices and judges were put up for trial?
I felt very sad. It hardly happened in my time as a young lawyer. It was rare. Even before I was born, we didn’t read about what we now have here today. Judges, in my younger days, hardly lived in societies. You won’t see them; they won’t attend parties – very rarely, grudgingly close friends. But you will see judges dancing before the musician in public now. Nigerian judges, who followed up British judges kept to themselves. They were anti-social, for obvious reasons not to be contaminated by the society, and not to be seen with people who might appear before them next morning in court.
So, they became what more or less you call Eleha (women in purdah) in Muslim community to themselves alone. Unfortunately, you find some of the young persons on the bench now all over the place. That is part of the problem, and then societal problem of corruption is eating into the bones of average Nigerians. Well, I do hope that some of them who don’t answer to the description of the old time judges I met – the bad eggs will break, leaving the good eggs to produce the golden eggs.
Do you think the judiciary can bounce back from this?
I think they can bounce back, if society also bounces back at least, a little to what it used to be. Things were not that bad as they are today. I wouldn’t think that any judge that has the tendency to be corrupt will develop that tendency now. You see the sad sight of judges being hounded like thieves, who normally appeared before them. That sad sight I hope would pull those who have the tendency to be corrupt to desist.
Still talking corruption, what can you make of the recent discovery of a total sum of N13.3billion at a flat in Ikoyi?
When I remember the salary of a federal commissioner in my time, this huge figure, I can’t fathom. The salary of a commissioner in my time was 3000 pounds per annum. It is really a huge dent on the society that huge sums were hoarded by some persons/ organisations in residential buildings, apparently for corrupt practices. Anyone with any huge sum or sums like that should keep his money in the bank.
But when such monies were not found in the bank, they must be there for corrupt practices. I hope that after this initial sanitation, which Buhari is carrying out, such incidence will be reduced to the barest minimum, because such corruption cannot be wiped out entirely. We can only hope, fight and pray that such corruption will be reduced to the barest minimum. It is unbelievable and I hope that whistleblowers will blow more to expose such corrupt practices. It is mind boggling!
One of the debates that have come up on the political turf is the confirmation of the chairman of the EFCC, which has been put forward before the Senate twice and turned down the two times. We have also had lawyers come up to say that the Senate does not really need to confirm these persons before they can do their job; that they can actually go on in acting capacity. This has remained one of the things that the Senate has taken seriously as an encroachment on their rights as an institution.
Well, maybe both sides have not read their constitution appropriately, but if it is the same constitution, which Abdulsalam put together in 1999; if it is the same constitution, I can’t find anywhere in the constitution which enjoins the presidency to submit the name of chairman of the EFCC to Senate for confirmation. Section 153 of the constitution lists a large number from code of conduct bureau to revenue mobilisation, allocation and fiscal commission; it is the chairmen of these bodies who must be confirmed under section 154 of the constitution by the Senate.
Section 171 also contains this information about presidential appointments. That section 171 makes no reference to confirmation by the Senate. I understand that there was amendment or is it pronouncement, that the Federal Executive Council approved the number of government agencies, whom the appointment of their chairmen must be approved or screened by the Senate.
Now, if this list approved by the FEC was not made part of the constitution, it is of no consequence whatsoever. If you want to amend the constitution, you go by the normal process of 2/3 of the State Houses of Assembly, 2/3 of the National Assembly to amend the constitution. Even if the pronouncement was passed by the National Assembly, until section 153, 154 and 171 are amended to include these agencies of government, they are invalid. The constitution prevails. So, it is not even law yet. Approval by the FEC is approval by the FEC, nobody can enforce such decision of the FEC unless it is made into law, and if it is made into law, it will still be included in the constitution to have that effect. So, to me submitting the list of the chairman for confirmation is an exercise.
But the EFCC, being a creation of the Obasanjo administration, is also an act of the National Assembly?
That doesn’t matter. For approval, it must be included in the list in section 153 of the constitution before the Senate can confirm or deny the appointment of the chairman, whose name has been submitted by the presidency. The constitution is supreme; it overrides any law. If there is any conflict, precedent belongs to the constitution. So, for the president to submit the list, maybe he was not properly legally advised. And incidentally, the childish instruction by the Senate that one of these officers for invitation must wear uniform, I find it to be unworthy of the Nigerian Senate.
Presidents in the world now wear shirts without ties. Watch the numerous television stations and you will find presidents casually dressed. So, must you say that if one is not in uniform, you won’t attend to him? Is he a primary school boy? As long as the man is decently and properly dressed, you don’t need to put on a tie let alone put on a uniform. Is it the uniform that you want to address or the man himself? That shows the level of education of these young men and women in our various legislatures and the level of exposure to the civilised world.
(See the concluding part on www.thisdaylive.com)