Dubai testimony will undermine process
Family’s plea is absurd – lawyer
Enabling the Guptas to testify from overseas would inevitably validate their criticism of local law enforcement as unreliable and incompetent.
Arguing against a request from the Guptas to testify in the commission of inquiry into state capture from Dubai via video link, advocate Azhar Bham SC – representing former government communications head Themba Maseko labelled their plea as “absurd”.
“They want you to categorise the law enforcement agencies, and by extension the court system, as unreliable, incompetent and whatever unfortunate words were used. The moment you do that, you might as well give up the commission now, because you can never refer matters that require further action to those very law-enforcement agencies. It becomes absurd,” Bham told commission chair deputy chief justice Raymond Zondo.
Zondo reserved judgment on the Guptas’ application after they made it clear they will only give evidence outside of South Africa, by video link or through the inquiry travelling to them, because they “mistrust” the Hawks.
Gupta lawyer advocate Mike Hellens SC argued that if Zondo rules against his clients, claims made against them by Maseko, former deputy finance minister Mcebisi Jonas and ex-ANC MP Vytjie Mentor will be absent from the inquiry’s evidence and findings.
Zondo has, however, repeatedly questioned whether the Guptas – whose patriarch Ajay has been defined as a “fugitive from justice” by the Hawks – has any lawful reason to avoid giving evidence in SA, and contended they are only willing to participate in his inquiry “under their own terms”.
“Can you say on the one hand I don’t like this system for whatever reason and you flee, but then you say but actually it’s got some benefits … it allows cross-examination, I want to get that benefit.”
Former president Jacob Zuma’s son Duduzane, a close associate of the Gupta family, has also asked to cross-examine Jonas about his claims that he set up a meeting at which a Gupta brother tried to bribe Jonas into taking the position of finance minister. He doesn’t want to testify about Jonas’s claims, because he has been charged with corruption in relation to them.
Zondo was unimpressed. “Why should there be some people who don’t seem to want to … subject themselves to the same rules as everybody in the country are subjected to?” Zondo asked his advocate Dawie Joubert.
The inquiry’s legal team leader Vincent Maleka argued that the Guptas were attempting to use the inquiry to “proclaim their innocence” and urged Zondo to dismiss their applications to cross-examine Jonas, Mentor and Maseko. He slammed their promise to testify overseas as “worth nothing”. “They want to use the commission processes to proclaim their innocence.
“We submit that the type of undertaking … is not worth the pain because they may wake up and decide that they are not going to participate in the commission,” Maleka said.
He further argued there were cost implications to send the legal team abroad, and financial resources were scarce.
“Even if we take that proposition on face value, we know that, the road to hell is paved with good intention and we don’t have to risk that road.”
Zondo agreed and said it would be a “huge operation” requiring more money.
Hellens however denied Maleka’s assertions that his clients’ responses to the evidence against them is based on nothing but “bald denials”.
Hellens said the Guptas have “substantive responses” and must be given the chance to provide this evidence if the Zondo inquiry has any hope of “getting to the truth” about alleged state capture.
Zondo said he hopes to rule on the Gupta and Duduzane’s cross-examination applications next week.
‘ ‘ Family have substantive responses to help inquiry getting to truth