‘I’m a strong believer of the fact that cooperation is good for everybody’
French President Emmanuel Macron is Europe’s voice of reason and liberalism as US President Donald Trump thunders on about nationalism from across the Atlantic. Both like to be viewed as outsiders, yet differ on trade and climate change. In an interview to Fareed Zakaria on CNN, Macron is candid about his differences with Trump, but says they work together very well on major issues like terrorism.
II always prefer having direct discussion or answering questions (than) doing my diplomacy through tweets. But I think we had a very clear discussion. He is in favour of better burden-sharing within Nato. I agree with that. And I think that in order to have a better burden-sharing, all of us need more Europe.
About his relationship with Donald Trump and what they share in common
Probably the fact that both of us are outsiders unlike classical politicians. He arrived from the business side, he was not a favourite, and was an unexpected candidate. I was pretty much in the same situation in France.
We are very much aligned in the fight against terrorism and we work very closely together following this line. We know where we disagree and we are very straightforward with that — on climate, on trade, on multilateralism — but we work very well together because we have very regular and direct discussions.
I’m not a nationalist, which is very different, for me, from being a patriot. I do defend my people. I do defend my country. I do believe that we have a strong identity. But I’m a strong believer in cooperation between different peoples, and I’m a strong believer of the fact that this cooperation is good for everybody, where the nationalists are sometimes much more based on a unilateral approach and the law of the strongest, which is not my case.
On whether Europe may use alternatives to the US dollar in the wake of the failed JCPOA nuclear deal with Iran
I think today Europe does not have a clear alternative to the dollar. Why? Because de facto, there is international extraterritoriality of the dollar, due to its strengths. And till now, we have failed to make the euro as strong as the dollar. We made a great job during the past years, but it’s not sufficient. We are too much dependent, our corporates are too much dependent — which is an issue.
So that’s why I want us to work very closely with our financial institutions, at the European levels and with all the partners, in order to build capacity to be less dependent on the dollar. It doesn’t mean we will be opponents — but I think for the stability of the global order, you’ll need a strong currency like the dollar.
But you need some alternatives. Euro has to be one of these alternatives.
On his declining popularity, his mandate, which reflects on his reform agenda
I’m not obsessed with that. You are not elected by (opinion) polls and I don’t face midterm elections. I have a five years’ mandate. And what I have to do especially in this current environment is to deliver. And that’s totally true that my polls fell because I passed very unpopular reforms. And guess what? I was elected precisely because all my predecessors failed or decided not to deliver these reforms. I do believe these reforms are a necessity for my country and for the future generation. What I have to do now is to be totally dedicated to the implementation of that. I have to spend my energy to explain these reforms to my people and that’s probably how I can recover.
I’m strongly persuaded that French people will progressively recognise and agree with the fact that we are doing our best for the country and we are serving the country for the future.
On Brigitte Macron: a powerful window into understanding him
Probably. She is much more bold and courageous than I am. She has a life. And it’s totally different. I think the main merit is my wife’s merit. But for sure, what I built at that time, what we built together, is not to be obsessed by what people think about you. But when you are convinced and sincere about what you are doing, when you don’t lie to yourself and to the other, you can build something which was seen as impossible.
I’m not a nationalist, which is very different, for me, from being a patriot. I do defend my people. I do defend my country. I do believe that we have a strong identity.