‘That’s why we have iPads and advisers’
RADIO 4’S MISHAL HUSAIN: Your plans are predicated on raising more money through taxes and borrowing. Yesterday when asked about the amount it costs us ... to service our debt, you struggled a bit with the figures. Have you worked out how much more it would cost to service our debt under Labour?
JOHN MCDONNELL: The type of journalism where you go into an interview and someone asks a question on a particular figure is a trite form of journalism. That is why we have iPads and advisers etc. Look, so let’s get back to the reality of this.
MH: But I asked you about servicing the national debt, which costs about £48billion a year at the moment. How much would it cost under Labour?
JM: What we would do is ensure that day-to-day spending was not paid for by borrowing, it would be paid for through our tax system. We would only invest for our infrastructure, and that would pay for itself on the basis of the growth that we would achieve.
MH: What would it cost in the servicing of the debt? How much would add to that £48billion figure?
JM: We are now at the stage where interest rates are so low that ensuring that you borrow in that initial phase... MH: Interest rates are going up. JM: Yes but they’re still at historic lows and it’s not just me just saying this. Savid (sic) Javid two weeks ago said, “now the interest rates are so low we should be borrowing to invest”.
MH: But we all know that you would borrow to invest. The question I have asked you a couple of times now is how much would it add to the servicing costs every year?’
JM: It’s minimal because the interest rate is so low. MH: What is minimal? JM: Minimal, we are literally talking about it paying for itself.
MH: Are you talking about a minimal increase?
JM: We’re talking about it paying for itself – a one-to-one multiplier. When you invest, what you do is you grow the economy and as a result of that you cover your cost.
MH: Over the long term. But how much above £48billion would we pay to service our debt next year?
JM: It’s absolutely minimal because it would be returned rapidly to you. MH: But what is the figure? JM: I am telling you it pays for itself. MH: You have also said it’s minimal, I am wondering what the figure is? Do you know?
JM: It pays for itself, it pays for itself.