Susan
The Academy Award winner and impassioned activist is one of the most revered actors of her generation. Interviewed by her Feud co-star Kiernan Shipka, the two compare being 17 and 71
Within minutes of being on the phone together, Kiernan Shipka (Sally Draper on Mad Men) and her Feud co-star Susan Sarandon are screaming that they’re both going to be at the Venice International Film Festival. ‘You gotta hit me up,’ says 17-year-old Kiernan. She’ll be at Miu Miu’s shorts series, Women’s Tales, while Susan, 71, is ‘getting some award or something’. Her nonchalant attitude is an indicator of just how much she’s been celebrated over her 50-year career. Beyond her screen roles in films such as Dead Man Walking and Thelma & Louise, Susan has been vocal off-screen as a political activist, most recently getting into hot water over her anti-Hillary Clinton comments in the last US election. Next month, she stars in A Bad Moms Christmas alongside Mila Kunis, and then BBC TV series Feud, where Kiernan plays the daughter of Susan’s Bette Davis. The series revisits Davis and her nemesis Joan Crawford during a time when women in Hollywood were pitted against each other – Susan herself has lived through an era of unsisterly competitiveness, one that, thankfully, neither her or Kiernan could fathom existing now. KIERNAN SHIPKA: Hey girl, how’s it going?
SUSAN SARANDON: There she is! How are you, sweetie?
KS: Good! I’m going to Italy today, so the summer is picking up.
SS: Are you going to a festival by any chance?
KS: Indeed I am! Are you going to be there?
SS: Yes! You’ll get to meet my boys. [Jack and Miles, from Susan’s relationship with actor Tim Robbins]
KS: That’s so exciting!
SS: I’ll find out where I’m staying, and we’ll hook up beforehand. A motherdaughter trip! Right, are we interviewing each other?
KS: Well, hopefully you can share your wonderful wisdom with the world…
SS: Ah, so the heavy lifting seems to be on you then, Kiernan.
KS: I know! The weight is on my shoulders. Well, I wanted to start with a thank you. When we began to film Feud, I was so scared because it was a huge deal to work with you. You were so supportive and generous with your time. Did anyone take you under their wing at the start [of your career]?
SS: It was easy for me to be generous because you were such a pro. I came of age when a lot of older women actors made life difficult; women saw other women as their enemy. You can be competitive and still be admiring of someone. It doesn’t have to transfer into annihilating that person. Now, women understand that we’re stronger when we stick together. I would never bad mouth another female actor. To isolate yourself by turning on someone is self-defeating. I worked with somebody once who had certain colours in her contract that you couldn’t wear.
KS: That is crazy!
SS: I know. I could go on. I never had a mentor, but I’ve had friends, some of whom are in the business: women, gay men, writers, painters. Vanessa Redgrave is someone I’ve admired. She’s not afraid to speak up for injustice and bring that courage to every role. My love for women has increased with all the stories I’ve told [on screen].
KS: I heard you talk before about your fearto-fun ratio. Have you always been attracted to the fearful aspect of a role?
SS: I’m lazy. If something doesn’t frighten me, I won’t pay attention. With Thelma & Louise, I wasn’t sure how it would work, but I knew what I didn’t want it to be. Taking on a film like Dead Man Walking [the 1995 drama that won Susan an Academy Award for Best Actress], where you’re dealing with an important issue – that’s scary. There has to be some red flag or warning so that I don’t get sloppy.
KS: Let’s talk about fashion. Do you enjoy it?
SS: Oh, I enjoy beautiful things, but I don’t know. If I had your body, then everything would look fabulous. The Oscars are a chore every time. I’ve known designers who’ve been a great help to me: Donna Karan, Diane Von Furstenberg and Todd Oldham all came of age as I did. I’m not a good movie star in that sense. Even now, I’m trying to pack for Venice and figure out all the things you need for dinners and whatever. Are you going to all these dinners?
KS: I’m going to so many dinners! I looked at my itinerary and it’s so funny… SS: …we’re welcomed so many times at these ‘welcome dinners’.
KS: We’re welcomed until we’re sent off! Did you ever wear anything ridiculous in your twenties?
SS: Oh my God, yes. In the beginning, I didn’t have any money. The first time I was nominated for an Oscar, nobody would give me a discount. I would wear vintage dresses I’d find at thrift shops. I got on the worst-dressed lists. My biggest faux pas was in Cannes. I brought a little vintage black dress. In those days,
If something doesn’t frighten me, I won’t pay attention
SUSAN SARANDON by KIERNAN SHIPKA
no one was wearing bras. I learned the hard way that when people take flash photos of a dress, it becomes an x-ray. There were many pictures of my nipples.
KS: You were the original ‘free the nipple’! Isn’t it almost more awkward if the bra is showing? That’s always my dilemma.
SS: It depends on the bra. I got a couple of awards in Rome and had this Dolce & Gabbana dress on with the bra showing. The papers thought I looked like a bad woman. It was too ahead of its time.
KS: Haha. I wanted to ask you what advice you would give to your 18-year-old self? It’s my 18th birthday in November.
SS: I’d say, now you’ll go to jail as an adult, so be careful.
KS: That is good advice. How about me? I bet you’d tell me something different. SS: I hope you realise how beautiful you are, because I had no idea what I looked like when I was your age. Surround yourself with people who celebrate you, and go on adventures. You only have so many free years before you start paying the bills. So look around and appreciate yourself: you are so gifted, and so special.
KS: Oh my God, thank you so much!
SS: You’re so welcome, darling. I’m looking to the millennials. They’re active in a way I wasn’t. You’ll live longer, be happier and less anxious if you engage with the environment and social justice. The world is in an interesting place. We may be tempted to depression by the unravelling of structures and the rise of hatred. It’s scary, but I’m incredibly optimistic because we have so much opportunity to re-write all these systems. KS: That’s the best possible way to look at it.
SS: Things have really changed, and social media is a huge part of the responsibility. You have to be engaged in a way that I didn’t have to be at your age. Do you feel that, turning 18, you’re entering into a shift of some sort?
KS: It’s interesting. The responsibility of having social media followers has been brought up more and more, and to me it’s crazy because I know no different than a world with Instagram and Twitter. For me, with things changing so rapidly, it’s just about remaining authentic. I’ve found that I can waste too much time on it when I could be reading something interesting. I try to stay mindful. It is what it is and it’s not going away. It’s nice if you can have fun and not take it too seriously.
SS: Yeah, that’s true. Although I guess there are times when it can be used [for good]. Aside from that question, do you see yourself travelling more? Have you set any goals for yourself?
KS: I want to have a ton of adventures. I know it sounds weird, but I can’t believe I’m almost 18.
SS: Well, I’ve been spreading the rumour that you’re actually 28. You’re too together for an 18-year-old. I’m excited to see you in Venice.
KS: We’ve gotta meet up!
SS: Then we can talk about which of the many welcoming dinners you’re going to.
KS: Exactly, maybe we’re being welcomed at the same dinner.
SS: Our table will be the most fun of all.
Feud will show on BBC2 later in the year