heat chats to Ironic singer Alanis Morissette
There’s nothing ironic about the singer’s long and successful career
Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you,” go the lyrics of Alanis Morissette’s most famous song,
Ironic. And those words couldn’t be truer when you realise this year is the 25th anniversary of the album Jagged Little Pill. The seminal record sold more than 33million copies worldwide, and Alanis still holds the title for third bestselling album from a female artist… ever.
Fast-forward 25 years and the 46 year old is still making music – her latest album will be her ninth – and enjoying family life, having recently moved to San Francisco with her husband, rapper Mario “Souleye” Treadway, and their three children – sons Ever, nine, and 11-month-old Winter, and daughter Onyx, four.
Here, Alanis speaks candidly about her struggles with postnatal depression and anxiety, raising her three kids, and the legacy her music has left. Her new album, Such Pretty Forks In The Road – out on 31 July – deals with topics like meditation, mental health and motherhood. And with three kids to deal with during lockdown, we can only imagine what the inspiration behind the album’s lead single was…
Your new single is called Reasons I Drink – did you have any reasons to drink today? [Laughs] Yep! Just the sleeplessness, for me, because of jet lag with three kids. Basically, I haven’t slept in six days. But that’s fun, too! Yeah, the stress is high. This time, well with all three children, I had postpartum activity – that’s what I call it. So, the first two were postpartum depression, and then this one [son Winter], it’s postpartum anxiety. So, medication is very helpful. But there are a lot of reasons to reach for self-medication. What do you deem self-medication? It’s a long list. Food. Sometimes alcohol. Work addiction is my number one. And I am a recovering love addict. I married an appropriate person, you know. We’re like
‘In a parallel universe, I’d have ten kids and adopt another ten’
any couple, we have our own challenges, but it’s much more functional than what I had been doing before. What do you mean when you say a recovering love addict? Well, I’d like to say recovered, but anyone who says that is an asshole [Laughs]. You know, I’m always recovering, from developing still – I’m really obsessed with developmentalism. I always think about little pieces – like if people missed love as a kid, there’s going to be some loneliness or some pain. And then if there is suffering because of that in our lives, it makes sense. That’s how I see addiction, I think it warrants more empathy. I think people are seeking relief from stress or pain. So, I feel saddened when I see addicts being judged. We’re just trying to keep it together! Do you think love addiction could be a positive thing? No, it’s the most intensive withdrawal of all. You know, I haven’t had withdrawal from heroin or any of those things, but love addiction withdrawal is deeply, deeply painful. You and your husband have just celebrated your tenth anniversary… Yeah, I can’t believe ten years have gone by! But in all the relationships I’ve had that ended, I would say that I was committed to doing the work. And sometimes when we’d start having conflicts, I would see that as the beginning of being really honest. Conflict is growth trying to happen and they would say, “Oh no, we’re fighting too much, we should end it. And I’d be like, “So you think it’s the end and I think it’s the beginning.” [Laughs] So, there you go. That’s why I’m not with any of my exes.
You get into some deep concepts in your new album. The songs Diagnosis and Losing The Plot explore meditation and mental ill health… Yes, and I think the more sensitive we are – I think of artists like Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain – the more we benefit from support. Whether it be therapy or whatever, that kind of support is really important, because we’re really sensitive to everything. I can be highly empathic. So, it’s a sacred trait, you know, and it makes for great art and music and philosophy – but it can be hard on the body. What state of mind were you in when you wrote Diagnosis? For Diagnosis, I was in it very deeply. And in Hollywood – I lived there for 25 years and we just moved to the Bay Area [in San Francisco] a year ago. I can withstand the Hollywood mentality of, “You gotta be famous, you gotta look 19 forever and you’ve got to be a billionaire” – it used to be a millionaire, now you’ve got to be a billionaire – but I just wanted to bring my kids up somewhere else, where the value system was about relationships and community. So, that was a big juncture, a big turning point to come up here. Being a woman over 26 in Hollywood, there are really patriarchal messages sent to you that they’re done with you in some way, so that’s why I had to write Losing The Plot. But, interestingly enough, every time I’ve had postpartum depression, I’ve always felt better than ever after. So, I look forward to that. Does that mean you’d think about having a fourth child? Er, no. I think I’m done [Laughs]. You know, in a parallel universe, I’d have ten kids and adopt another ten. Definitely, somewhere in the recesses of my unconscious, I want to have 20 children. But this particular one, I think I’m done, because my career means so much. If I was willing to do mum full-time – well, I am doing mum full-time – but it’s just maths. There are only 24 hours in a day! You have an interesting homeschooling method for your children, is that right? It’s called unschooling. We loosely base it on [developmental psychologist] Howard Gardner’s theory of multiple intelligences. There were seven and he added
two more, and then I audaciously asked if I could add a few more, and he was like, “Yeah, let’s.” But we just kind of keep our eye on that. Sometimes it’s maths, sometimes it’s painting, sometimes it’s philosophy. It’s 24/7, there’s no like, “From 1-3pm…” It’s all the time. Do your kids know what mummy does for a living? Onyx is starting to slowly understand. Ever pretty much totally gets it, and sometimes he’s charmed by it and other times it isn’t even on his radar. But Onyx and Ever both have really beautiful voices, so… I don’t say anything about it other than, “You have a really beautiful voice.” But I’ll hear him. The other day, he was in the shower in the morning and I just heard him outside the bathroom. He was singing Smiling [a song from the new album] and hitting all the notes, and I was like, “Oh, sweet boy.” You weren’t much older than Ever when you started, right? That’s right. It was actually right around now. Kids know what they love from a very early age. Like, I gave my phone to my daughter so she could take photos, and she handed it back and I looked, and they are amazing, the composition is mind-boggling. It’s the same with Ever’s singing. I just think if you ask kids, “What do you love?” they’ll tell you and they know from really early on. I knew when I was three what I wanted to do.
And did your life turn out exactly how that three year old wanted it to? Yeah, it did. And it’s a lot. In the ’90s, it was very much about, you know, pick one thing, you’re either a rock star or you’re an academic, or you’re a mum, like just pick one. Whereas now, in 2020, I feel like there’s a great invitation to be everything. And the challenge becomes how to manage time and energy. So, this is a good era to be in for the multi-hyphenated people. I used to feel shame about it and was judged for it – now I’m being praised for it, which is interesting. In what way? I’m talking about the industry itself – I remember I wanted to dance for the video to [1998 single] So Pure, that I directed. And I remember the record company saying, “This is a career suicide choice for you.” And I was like, “Woah, I’m just dancing. Relax!” How do you feel about Jagged Little Pill turning 25 this year? I’m glad that I can still sing these songs with conviction, which to me says that the value system has remained the same. I think the songs gave people permission to be human and to feel anger, to feel joy, to feel human. So, in some ways, I feel like it’s this giant permission-giver. So, that makes sense to me. When I think of it that way, that makes sense that it became such a zeitgeist, women allowing themselves to feel angry – why not? And how does it feel that it’s even been turned into a stage musical? It takes it to a whole other level. I’m able to sit and receive the music for the first time, because I’m always monologically performing it and so to receive it… I’ve just been a sobbing, weeping mess. [Laughs]. Literally, I can’t stop crying every time I’m sitting like at rehearsals or watching them, I’m just like heaving! n
Such Pretty Forks In The Road is out on 31 July