DAVID AND MARK HIGGINS IN THE SPOTLIGHT
Rallying brothers tackle Motorsport News readers’ questions
The Higgins brothers reflect on their career highs and lows as they face the MN readers’ questions.
“Is this a quiz? What’s our prize if we win?” quips Mark Higgins, less than a minute into our phone call. The competitive edge that yielded him three British Rally titles hasn’t faded. But it’s not just Motorsport News he’s addressing; brother David is here too.
David, on paper at least, is the more successful of the brothers with 10 US titles and one British crown on his CV. But when they were both competing in the BRC, it was Mark who more often than not was enjoying the larger spotlight in the top classes.
But who’s the better driver? Why is David congratulated every time he goes to America and why did crashing a Vauxhall Nova land Mark his first big break? All that and more are revealed as the Motorsport News’s readers put the Higgins brothers to the test.
Question: “You’ve driven many cars throughout your career but which is your favourite and is there a car you haven’t driven but would like to?” Greg Tomkins
Via Twitter
Mark Higgins: “That’s difficult. There’s favourite cars for different rallies. The F2 cars on Tarmac were fantastic and the [Nissan] Sunny was a great car, and any World Rally car on a proper sort of stage is fantastic as well. All the World Rally cars have got a similar feel, any of those are good. And then probably my favourite car of all to drive was the TT car [Subaru Impreza]. So everything really [laughs].”
David Higgins: “My favourite would definitely be the last Subaru [I drove] in America because it was the ultimate rally car where the regulations were free, loads of power, good handling and everything so that was pretty good. And probably the two cars I would love to drive: I’ve never done a rally in a proper Group 4 Escort so I would need to do that at some point, but the other one would be the old Toyota Celica ST185 because that was the top car at the time when I was getting into rallying with [Juha] Kankkunen, [Carlos] Sainz and those guys. That would be something I would really like to have a go in.” MN: Are there any of each other’s cars you’d have liked to have competed in? MH: “I would like to have competed in one of David’s last Subarus, they were pretty awesome. We had one of his old cars in China for a bit which was nice but his latest cars looked mega to be honest.”
DH: “From my point of view, pretty much every year when Mark was in factory F2 cars I wanted to be in one of them!”
Question: “What’s the worst car you’ve both driven?”
Jamie Edwards
Via Twitter
MH: “Peugeot 306. Basically we’d
come out of the Honda Civic and we had a supported drive in a Peugeot. It just retired all the time, I remember it being fairly awful to be honest.”
DH: “The worst car I’ve ever done a rally in is I did the WRC Australia in a Mini. I don’t know how the hell I got persuaded into doing it but I couldn’t even get off the first startline because the ruts were that bad and I had to reverse before I could go forward. The Peugeot [106] Maxi was an unbelievable car on Tarmac but on gravel and reliability and different things going wrong it was probably one of my most frustrating years really. It doesn’t look like we’ve both done ourselves a good job with getting a career with Peugeot…” MH: “And I drove one of those in the British Rallycross Championship didn’t I? That was one of my favourite cars though.”
Question: “Who’s the better driver?” Cathy Metcalfe
Via Instagram
MH: “Oh I knew that was coming!
[I will say] David.”
DH: “Mark.”
MN: So diplomatic! In that case, why? MH: “I don’t even know how you could answer that one. There’s different rallies and different times where we’ve been quicker than each other so it’s very, very hard to say. There’s no way I want to go anywhere near America but there’s certain rallies where we’ve been strong.” MN: This might be more relevant to you David. Was it a help or a hindrance to have an obvious yardstick in Mark? DH: “It was definitely a help to start with because I wouldn’t even be in rallying if it wasn’t for Mark because of what he did with the Nova and the backing and things he had, I basically was getting his cast-offs for the first few years of things. But then I’d say definitely in the British championship it was a hindrance because he was always seen as the senior one so it was very difficult to go into teams even because team managers at the time in the F2 days were very concerned that information would spread from one of us to the other, and none of the team managers were brave enough to put us both in the same team.
“Steve Bagnall [Volkswagen team manager] was quite close at one point to doing it but it never happened so that was why I chose to go off and do something in America and Mark followed! I’ve done a lot in China and a lot in America so our careers have spread but when we were trying to do stuff together, it was hard for both of us because you’re competing for the same drives, fighting for the same sponsors. The only fall outs we’ve ever had has been over wanting to do things just for our own careers so that’s why it was nice to move away and do different things really.”
MH: “It was great when we were both doing the British championship but in different classes because I’d get to the end of the stage and all I was worried about was what David had done and trying to find out what was happening. And that was a lot easier for our parents as well. You can imagine mum and dad, when we’re both doing the same thing, who they’re actually supporting but we’ve been very, very lucky to be in motorsport for this long really and there’s been more fantastic times than there has been bad times.
Question: “Did you have a driver you looked up to or tried to emulate in terms of style?”
Hayden Barry
Via Email
DH: “In my early days, Mark, because he was always in the factory teams. In-car cameras were not really a common thing but he always had one and I literally used to spend every night watching all his videos to learn the roads and watch what he did, so I guess Mark would be the biggest influence on my driving. And then as time goes on you look at different people. I always admired Carlos [Sainz] for his work ethic and Richard Burns.” MH: “I suppose for me, when I started on the Isle of Man nobody had really got a works drive [from there] effectively. [Ari] Vatanen was a hero and obviously Colin [Mcrae], for their pure commitment and attacking driving style. But the person I looked up to massively was my dad [Tony Higgins] who was a lovely driver and never really got the break. He did a few Manxs and was always competitive until we ran out of money, tyres and clutches.” DH: “He’s still really fast now.”
MH: “Yeah sitting with dad now he’s so smooth and makes it look very effortless, and he’s 70-odd now. He used to do a lot at the rally school, he had a very natural way of driving.”
DH: “He still goes in the simulator every night now doesn’t he?”
MH: “Yeah, he’d smash me at that!”
Question: “What was the most pivotal moment in both your careers?”
Alex Waterman
Via Email
DH: “I think it’s very hard to put it down to one but I think as an overall thing it’s when you start to get people to believe in you to actually give you the opportunity. It’s such a fine line between everything going great and having absolutely nothing, I don’t think you can really pin it down to one single moment.
“But there have been so many people that have helped me. It was [Peugeot competition boss] Mick Linford in the early days, then it was Paul Barrett and then Hugh [Evans] stepped in when I had the fine and no licence to compete or do anything so that was really grim and then he got me going again to get me in the right frame of mind before getting picked up by Subaru. In the meantime I did an awful lot in China as well. [Asquith Autosport boss] Richard Asquith definitely picked both myself and Mark up and we did seasons with him. Richard Asquith and his family have probably helped more drivers who haven’t got big budgets than anybody in the country. They would find money to go and do a test even when you thought it was not possible because Richard was so keen to be in the car. He just wanted to be doing it all the time.”
MH: “Yeah, brilliant guy. [He helped] Niall Mcshea, Neil Wearden, Robbie Head, myself and David and we had some fantastic times with Richard. He did it for the love of the sport, not for making money and was a big part for a lot of people; very important guy.”
MN: What about you then Mark? Any one or a few moments that stand out?
MH: “There’s always massive ups and downs and times you think it’s all over and then something crops up. At the very beginning, a very important rally for me was Ypres [1991]. It was the first time we’d ever rented a Group A car, it was my first left-hand drive and we basically sold a lot of stuff to go over and do this one rally in the Nova Challenge. There was Alister Mcrae there, David Metcalfe was doing it and [Bernard] Munster. I don’t think I’ve ever crashed so much in one rally. I was talking to David about it the other night because I’ve got my Nova here and every time David rang up to find out what was going on, I’d been off or rolled again.
“But there were seven stages in a row which we did one second behind Metcalfe and level with Munster but were about 25-30 seconds quicker than all the other challenge guys and I think that brought me to Vauxhall’s attention and I got a works drive with Vauxhall in ’92 which was my first one. And that got the ball rolling again but that died off after ’92 when David Metcalfe was killed, and then Richard [Asquith] picked us up in the little Castrol
“All I was worried about was David” Mark Higgins
Honda Civic for ’94 which was a fantastic year because we did loads of rallies. And that got us back into F2 and F2 was just starting to build momentum then, and I was lucky enough to get into Nissan.”
Question: “Do either of have you a moment or situation you wish you’d handled differently throughout your career?”
Graeme Haggarty
Via Email
DH: “There’s many! I regret not trying
[in the] World championship, I never did much in it because I didn’t have the budget to do it properly and I wish I’d maybe given a little bit more to do the Production cup but then in hindsight, everyone that’s done that has never really got anywhere afterwards where I’ve been lucky to make a living out of doing it. The only thing very early on I would definitely say is when I went into the F2 Ford in ’95 it was way too soon for me but at the time, when you’re that young you think you’re ready for anything. If I had had another year doing something [that was] a little more of a stepping stone it would’ve been way better than going straight into that car too soon. I ended up having a big accident that set me back for a while as well and things so it was a really difficult situation, especially being team-mates with Gwyndaf Evans and everything else.
So if I could do one thing different
I would have held back that year and done it the year after.”
MH: “It’s very hard to say what you would have done differently. There were a few things that went against me that I felt could’ve been big opportunities for [driving in the] World championship. We had foot and mouth at the wrong time, there were a few things like that that happened. But generally to be doing it for as long as we both have we’ve been very fortunate but [I] regretted not doing a proper World championship rally in a World Rally car on Tarmac, that’s the one thing I never got to do.
“We were meant to be doing the British championship in a Focus [WRC in 2001] but then the championship got canned so we didn’t do any rallying. Then I got a oneoff chance to do Rally GB at the end of the year and that was the year we were lying fifth when potentially 12 people could’ve won the rally back then, but we got pulled out after Carlos and Colin crashed so that was a bit of a downer. Things were going quite well then. We were lucky enough to be team-mates with Colin and Carlos on, I think, three Rally GBS, did lots of Rally GBS and we were always around the top six. I nearly did Rally Ireland in the Stobart-backed Focus but unfortunately Pirelli wouldn’t allow me to do it as I was contracted to them and the Stobart car was on Michelins. It would’ve been interesting to see how that would’ve gone.”
Question: “Which one of you is best on the spanners for your respective son’s karting careers?”
Tony Hughes
Via Facebook
MH: “Definitely David. I can build a car and do things, but there’s always a box of bits left over. So it’s good it being lightweight but it doesn’t necessarily work very well.”
DH: “I think Mark is also really clever where he actually makes out he’s really shit so more people do things for him.” MH: “I just like company when I’m building stuff [laughs].”
MN: What about the karting?
DH: “I did train as a mechanic when I left school, I worked at my dad’s garage and have worked on cars ever since. Karting was something I did for a bit longer than Mark and I never really stopped karting that much throughout my rallying [career] so I probably find the kart stuff a lot easier to do than Mark just because I’m around it all the time and when I’m not rallying I’m literally full-time with [son] Matthew’s racing. Mark’s busy with the [James Bond] movies and things so it’s harder for him to fit it in but I love doing it, I just think it’s a great thing to be doing.”
MH: “Definitely having mechanical knowledge is good. I’ve got very basic mechanical knowledge, I can get myself out of a hole with most stuff and that’s important for a rally. The amount of times we’ve had to bolt things together and come up with a plan to get yourself out of a stage, but often enough if David was in the rally as well he’d be the first person I’d be asking ‘can you give me a hand?’”
Question: “Who was your greatest rival if you had to pick one throughout your career, excluding each other?”
Simon Byers
Via Email
MH: “I think your greatest rival always is your team-mate. They’re in the same car so you’ve got to win that battle as there’s no excuses. So I think rather than putting it down to one person – there was a couple of people in the BRC we had some interesting battles with and I won’t elaborate on that much more, so I think
I’ll just leave it with team-mates.”
DH: “Yeah I agree really. When you think back on how long our careers have been and how many different types of cars; there were some people that were really tough to battle against in Group N and other people who were tough to go against in different categories so I think just your team-mate is the easiest answer for that.” MH: “Yeah, I don’t want to build anyone up and give them the satisfaction of thinking they’re good [laughs]!”
MN: Will you give us the initials?
MH: “No, I’m not going to!” [Mark then refused to tell MN off the record too.]
Question: “Do either of you have any plans for a return to rallycross?” [Mark won BRX in 2018 and David did various races in America]
Dan Wright
Via Twitter
DH: “I loved driving the rallycross cars, they are amazing and I would do it again but it’s not something I’d make a massive career path. The problem with it is, it is a brilliant sport and a brilliant thing, but there’s so much luck involved with it as well. You’ll win races you definitely don’t deserve to win and you’ll do many more races that maybe you should’ve won. You’re so reliant on everybody else and other people that it’s good for the spectators but I would rather go circuit racing than rallycross as a choice.”
MH: “I enjoyed it but I was very frustrated with it as well, especially the British championship. Again as David said it’s a bit of a lottery and sometimes it appeared to be a bit of rich man’s bumper cars but the cars are fantastic to drive. If you get a bad start, the whole weekend is over for you but the cars are just amazing and the whole atmosphere is just fantastic. But there’s nothing like a rally and if you get it wrong in a rally and there’s normally only one person to blame. The co-driver [laughs]!”
MN: How much does a rallying background help you in rallycross? MH: “It’s definitely more like rally [than racing] and the whole thing is a compromise. You’ve never got a perfect set-up because you’re on Tarmac tyres on gravel and you’re almost on gravel suspension on Tarmac so it’s just about adapting to conditions and lines and stuff. And also having somebody talking to you with the spotter, that’s quite a good from a rally point of view where you’re used to having pacenotes.
I think rallying does help but the sport’s changed massively over the past 10-15 years so the accuracy and the racing drivers have worked very well for the sport as well.”
Question: “When will we next see you in a rally car?”
Tyrone Bungay Via Email DH: “Yeah, obviously I’ve not stopped. This year’s made things really difficult. We’re still hoping to maybe get out on some [American] events this year depending on if we can travel or not really but looking to do a full programme again next year. But obviously when you’ve been at the highest level in any category with the best cars and the best teams, you need to make sure you’ve got everything in place to do it properly again because it would be really frustrating to go back [and not be competitive]. A lot of opportunities often come up to do the odd event but you want to make sure you’re doing the right event in the right car with the right team.”
MH: “I think what David said there as well, one thing we’ve learned is you either do it properly or you don’t do it all. I’d love to have a little go out, this is my longest gap ever from doing a rally. The last one I did was in China [2017] and I do miss it yeah, I’d love to get back in a car. Before I’m too old!”
Question: “A bobsled run, Isle of
Man TT course or the Transfagarasan. Which was the most challenging Subaru event, Mark?”
Thomas Harrison-lord
Via Twitter
MH: “Definitely the TT, hands down. The Transfagarasan is more like a rally stage so the speeds weren’t as high. There were high-speed sections but a lot of low-speed sections. The bobsleigh run I just pointed it and hung on for dear life, I wasn’t really driving down there but the TT is by far the most, not scary that’s the wrong word, but adrenalising thing I’ve ever done in my life.”
MN: And of course you had that huge high-speed save…
MH: “That was just lucky! That was 155mph and it started going sideways, that was a bit of a wake-up call. The worst thing about that is I had another 36 miles to think about what nearly happened.” DH: “The TT event was good for me as well as I probably get congratulated on that one every single time I go to an American rally. I have to talk through in great detail how I managed to save that moment!”
MH: “Me and David have had people argue with us telling us that we’ve done stuff, getting us mixed up with each other. This happens quite regularly so we now just agree with it and go along with it. It’s been great being American champion for all these years…”
Question: “What is David’s most frightening moment when he opened his ‘night experience’rally driving school? Apart from trying to instruct British Touring Car Championship driver [and then Motorsport News track tester] Paul O’neill…
Matt James
Via Twitter
DH: “Oh god, yeah that was a stupid idea that really. Everyone knows what the forest is like there, it’s literally such a dark place. [When] people drive round the forest school in the day time they see all the danger but when the night course came on, because the lights are just pointing forward, nobody saw any drops. They were all just so much faster in the dark because they couldn’t see any danger so, yeah, we didn’t do them for very long really.” MN: What were the benefits of having that rally school?
DH: “I think for both of us it opened up so many connections with people. Whether it was someone who was going there testing or the amount of seat time we could get from driving other people’s cars, [it] was something we never got anywhere else. That for me was the main benefit. When I took it over from my parents it got a lot harder because you were doing a lot more day-to-day running of the thing that you didn’t get the same sort of fun and enjoyment of doing the courses even. But certainly in the early days, Mark was teaching all the time and having the time to go in the cars made a massive difference. The cars weren’t necessarily so representative of what we were driving but the conditions, you’d see frost on the road so you’d know it was slippery so you’d be able to read the conditions of the road way better and be way faster.”
MH: “And for every bad driver, there’s often something occasionally they’d do quite well which you thought ‘that could actually work’. You were seeing things all the time but we never, ever took our cars up and went to practice. Dad wouldn’t let us!”
n