SUSIE ORBACH SHARES…

Author of the groundbreaking book Fat Is A Feminist Issue and former psychotherapist to Diana, Princess of Wales, Susie Orbach is known for her frank advice. Here, she shares with Natasha Lunn the valuable wisdom gained from her consulting room

what she has learned from 40 years working as a psychotherapist

Quietly powerful, warm and charismatic: that’s Susie Orbach. Her gaze is direct. Her pauses are meaningful. Everything about her is considered, from the thoughtful way she asks questions to her neatly maroon-painted nails.

As a psychotherapist who has spent over 40 years digging into clients’ inner worlds – including that of Diana, Princess of Wales – Orbach is the woman

The New York Times described as “probably the most famous psychotherapist to have set up couch in Britain since Sigmund Freud”. In her beautiful Hampstead home, on a crisp, bright, wintry morning, we meet to discuss the rerelease of In

Therapy, a book that shows what really goes on in therapy, through dramatised case studies. Orbach dedicates the book to her award-winning author wife: “For Jeanette Winterson, again, hoping this tells you more about what goes on in the consulting room.” And it really does lift a lid on the nuts and bolts of therapy, as well as the problems and struggles that unite us all – in love, work, family, sex and everything in between. In its pages, and with her clients, Orbach is daring enough to cut to the heart of our fears and desires, our insecurities, hopes, and the truths we might not yet know ourselves. Here, in her own words, she shares some of her sage wisdom with us all…

SEE LIFE IN TECHNICOLOUR

We’re not brought up to be self-reflective. I think although human beings have the capacity for it, a lot of people don’t reflect in that way unless they are tipped into it by difficulty. Maybe that’s when you get the tools of selfreflection – you experience something like a break up or cancer, and that bounces you into trying to understand that life isn’t black and white; it’s technicolour, with all the dark colours there, as well. Not everybody has to go into therapy, but I do think that self-reflection, or the capacity to see yourself in a more complex way, can enrich your life.

TAP INTO YOUR INNER DESIRES

I don’t think that performance is not uncommon in men but I’ve seen it much more with women. The people-pleasing aspects of performance are so integrated into being female: we’re brought up to look after others, to make sure everybody else is okay. That is an important part of us; it’s not something I want to give up. But if you only have that aspect then there will be a resentment, a lack of self-knowledge and a lack of capacity to act on your own behalf.

What’s important is to look at the different bits of us and have them relate to each other – not to banish any of them. It’s about finding, accepting and developing the undeveloped parts of you and finding ways to carve out time psychologically, in your mind. If you’re looking after your mum or your kids, try to understand, “What is my desire apart from those things? Where’s the peace?” You have to ask the questions and also be able to face the blanks. Sometimes it’s okay not to know.

DON’T JUST PERFORM – MAKE A CONTRIBUTION

There’s a lot of scope for fantasy and imaginary relationships online. You can be caught up in the business of it rather than the ordinary pleasure of just sitting, having a coffee with someone.

It’s also making our relationships harder, because we’re in our own online bubbles and there’s something very compelling about them. It’s not just like reading a book, there’s always something beckoning you, you’re always being wanted, there’s always some possibility online. The conditions today are much tougher because it’s such a competitive society and you have to perform all the time. I also think we are in the moment of the individual. The carapaces of modern life are: I don’t need anybody; I don’t need anything; I can do everything, which is just complete nonsense – we all need each other desperately. I do think we are on social media too much. Why do you need to be on it all the time? The other thing to ask yourself is:

“WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER DESPERATELY”

what am I doing that’s about contribution rather than just performance? We all draw strength from engaging and sharing values. Solidarity is important.

PARENTING IS ABOUT HOLDING YOUR NERVE

I think it’s really, really hard to be a parent today. There have to be some rules, or moments when kids cannot be online; they cannot live there the whole time. I think parents absolutely have the right to say, “No phones while we sit at the table.”

The other question is: can you hold your nerve enough to let your children go and do things that are incomprehensible to you, and hope they will come back and turn into lovely young women and men? That doesn’t mean you have to keep your mouth shut 100% of the time, but you do have to hold your nerve. Sometimes being a parent is accepting that you don’t need to know it all. Do you really want to know everything that’s going on at nursery school? Sort of, but really you just want to know your children are safe. Do you want to know everything they learn at seven? No, you don’t need to know everything about them growing up. Instead, you need to find areas you can share and talk about that interest you both, then also have different areas of interest, too.

TELL YOUR PARTNER WHO YOU REALLY ARE (AND ASK WHO THEY ARE , TOO)

“Intimate” means a different thing for each couple. Sex is one form of intimacy, talking is another. I don’t think intimacy is easy and we’re all scared of it because it’s quite explosive. On one hand, it’s gentle and makes us feel safe; on the other, to surrender to another is challenging. And it’s about compromise, too. He might see sex as intimacy, for her it may be talking. I think if the sex is good enough – often women are turned off by sex because it isn’t that good – intimacy can be seen as a gift for you if it propels you both into chat. And vice versa: if the man can chat and then it propels the woman into feeling that she wants to be sensual and sexual.

Love goes wrong when we forget to tell people who we are and forget to ask who they are. Falling in love is so intense it feeds you for a long time, and at that point the person is an “other”. Then you become a couple and can miss the fact that the person has a separate mind and set of desires. It’s about keeping balance between them being yours, so to speak, and them also being “other”. As long as you can keep that fact, you can stay interested.

We have to ask: what is it that we want in a relationship? We want understanding, intimacy, interest and cooperation. I think if what we are expecting is magic all the time from men then I don’t think it’s going to get delivered. So we have to be clear on what their incompetences are if we’re going to blame them for being incompetent. Is it because they don’t know how to relate to emotions? Because if it’s that, then it’s a question of helping them to do that but also receiving it when it comes along. Sometimes women can be rejecting without even realising it.

DIG DEEP INTO YOUR INTERESTS

My generation never thought about a career as this thing that you have to create and manage. Careers are becoming more of an identity now. I think you could ask yourself the question: if you were in a conversation with a stranger and they didn’t ask you about what you did on a daily basis, and you were just having a lovely life conversation, would it matter? Is it possible for you to have a conversation without delivering the facts of how you spend your working day? And are you okay with that? Finding something that has meaning to you is critical. Some of us are lucky enough to have that in our jobs; a lot of us don’t. I think if you’ve got some form of education, anything can be interesting the deeper you dig into it. If you learn any interest deeply, it will nourish you.

SILENCE YOUR INNER CRITIC

Body image is much worse and pervasive today. It affects boys as well as six-year-old girls playing cosmetic surgery app games (we’ve been trying to fight Google, Apple and Amazon as they have hundreds on their sites). Parents can instil kids with a healthy body image by not being preoccupied themselves: don’t stand in front of the mirror and say, “Urgh, I look fat in this”; don’t talk about bodies as beautiful, but do talk about what bodies can do – how fantastic that arms allow you to do this and legs allow you to do that. Don’t talk about “good” food and “bad” foods; just provide a range of good foods on the table. Of course, sometimes you will have negative thoughts – that’s okay, but keep them to yourself.

In Therapy: The Unfolding Story by Susie Orbach (Wellcome Collection and Profile, £9.99)

“TO SURRENDER TO ANOTHER IS CHALLENGING”