Thornberry says public opinion on independence not shifted

Labour leadership hopeful gives her take on the SNP and difficulties posed by ‘constitutional issue’

A Labour leadership candidate who apologised for saying she “hates the SNP” said she was left “frustrated” by how the party was failing Scottish people.

In an exclusive interview with The Courier, shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry put her comments down to frustration at being accused of talking Scotland “down” when trying to hold the SNP to account.

Ms Thornberry served in several shadow cabinet positions during the “rebellion” against Jeremy Corbyn, and claims to know the game when it comes to intense scrutiny of Labour politicians by the country’s media.

On Thursday the shadow foreign secretary took to Parliament during an urgent question to the government to apologise for comments she made about the SNP, including how she “hated” the party.

Ms Thornberry’s apology was accepted by SNP politicians including senior Perth and North Perthshire MP Pete Wishart and Joanna Cherry QC.

During a brief visit to Dundee, Ms Thornberry said Labour politicians face more scrutiny than the Conservative government in Westminster and SNP in Holyrood.

The potential party leader – who hopes to be the first woman MP to hold the position – said she would “chuck out” all the anti-Semites who had joined the party, but stopped short of distancing herself from former leader Jeremy Corbyn.

She said the party was struggling in once-fortified Labour seats like Dundee East – where Labour came third behind the Tories – because the SNP “wrap” themselves in the “constitutional issue”, which Labour has stumbled with in recent campaigns.

“I am not one of those English politicians who pontificates what the future is for the relationship between England and Scotland,” she said.

“Keeping close to Scottish Labour and listening to their views, and understanding, is something which I think is important.

“Now is a really challenging time for Scotland and what Scotland is going to be, and Labour needs to think very carefully about what we think the next step ought to be, especially as the Scottish nationalists are saying there should be another referendum in 2020.

“What I am picking up from people is while Scottish Labour is absolutely behind the idea if the Scottish people want to change the way they are governed they must be allowed to do that.

“But, having spoken to people, nothing has fundamentally changed in the attitude to whether they should be independent or not.”

Ms Thornberry stressed she had apologised in relation to comments she made about “hating” the SNP, but added her belief that the SNP did not yet have a mandate to call for another independence referendum.

She explained: “I don’t hate members of the Scottish National Party or people who vote for them. I was expressing my frustration… that I feel the SNP are failing in Scotland and they are not delivering in the way they should.

“Whenever you raise these concerns, the SNP start talking about independence.

“But also you feel if you criticise the Scottish National Party, very quickly people step over and say ‘You’re talking Scotland, you are talking Scotland down’. They are a political party and should be held to account the way any other party should be.

“Let’s say Scottish opinion does move: We have to have had a period of time in which it becomes clear what kind of relationship Scotland would have with Britain and Europe, which we cannot have the answers to right now. To me it doesn’t make sense at the moment.

“I just think these kind of hard questions I am asking are not answered at the moment.

“First of all, public opinion needs to shift, which I don’t think it has so far.

“Secondly, we need to have had a period of time in which people can play things out.

“What I am saying is... If having had a once-in-a-lifetime referendum we then decide there should be another one, then the best time to have that is when public opinion has shifted, which I don’t think it has done; and, secondly, when these hard questions are able to be answered – which, with the best will in the world, cannot be answered at the moment.”

She added: “I think it is particularly difficult to hold the Scottish nationalists to account because so often… people will talk to me on the doorstep about how much we need change, which is interpreted by the Nats as ‘we need independence’, but what people are talking about is things like ‘I have been waiting too long for my cancer care... I am worried about my grandchildren’s school slipping backwards’.”

“When we try to hold the Scottish nationalists to account they seem to wrap themselves up in the cloak of ‘but if only we were independent we would be fine’, but so many things which I have raised are what the Scottish nationalists have, being in power anyway in Holyrood.

“The question then is how do we make sure we have a proper voice north of the border?

“But always there is the constitutional issue we keep tripping over. On one hand we have Conservatives who are clear unequivocal unionists, and nationalists who are unequivocal nationalists. Labour is trying to be thoughtful and think of a way through the middle and, yes, we get squeezed.”

The Holyrood elections next year would be the first big electoral test for Ms Thornberry if she does become leader, but she firmly believes Labour has learned lessons from its recent troubles.

“At the recent election we did not perform properly and part of that was the election became, effectively, a referendum dressed up as a general election,” she said.

“In England people were saying ‘Let’s get Brexit done’. The Tories had three words, while Labour had three and a half paragraphs on Brexit. Frankly it had a terrible effect north of the border where people wanted to remain in the EU, looked at Labour, and said ‘We don’t know what Labour stands for’.

“There were mistakes made on what our approach would be, but I think if we stick to our core values and what is in our hearts and we say what we mean and we mean what we say I think people will come back to Labour.”

Despite calls to distance herself from outgoing leader Jeremy Corbyn, Ms Thornberry says she was proud to fulfil her “duty” by supporting him.

“There was some difficult times,” she acknowledged.

“I pulled my weight in getting us through the rebellion but my guiding light was the Labour Party belongs to its members, who wanted Jeremy Corbyn to be the leader and there was no question about that.

“It was my duty to support him completely.

“And Jeremy is now stepping down and what we need to have is a leader who is clear, forthright, strong, no problem making decisions and who will listen to people and not be afraid thinking one thing and come out thinking something else, and once a decision has been made we get on with it.”

Picture: PA. Labour leadership candidate Emily Thornberry has spoken of her frustrations at trying to hold the SNP to account.