Arlene Phillips interview
‘I’ll never really make peace with my Strictly sacking’
Arlene Phillips, CBE and grand dame of the dance world did not get where she is today by being over sentimental, lacking in self-confidence, or tiptoing, like the sugar plum fairy, over other people’s feelings. There must be former contestants of Strictly Come Dancing – the show on which she was famously a judge (and, then, even more famously, not a judge anymore) – who still bear the scars of her sequinned-stiletto-tothe-jugular approach.
Fiona “not one naturally moving bone in your body” Phillips and Carol “emotionless” Vorderman, as well as hosts of contestants who “danced like a wet sponge or had all the sex appeal of a limp daffodil,” will know only too well who they are.
“But my intention was never to offend anyone,” Phillips reflects now. “It was more my typically descriptive way of offering advice so that a contestant could come back stronger the next week. It’s exactly the same way I talk to dancers in class, if need be, or when I’m choreographing a show. But, then, I’m just as demanding of myself. If you’re not prepared to push, push, push, how are you going to get any better?”
It’s not the first time in our early morning interview at a café near her North London home that Phillips has chosen to repeat a word like a series of tap dancing steps. “Bitch, bitch, bitch,” is another example, used to describe how she imagines the public think of her.
“But, hopefully, my friends and family know that while I do have a side that can be demanding and very strict and can sometimes appear rude, there’s another side which is very loving, giving and maternal. I have the classic split personality, but that gentle side is definitely there.”
In fairness to Phillips, today – and the several other times that we’ve met – it’s the Jekyll not the Hyde that’s most in evidence. She’s funny, friendly, conspiratorial; unabashed by the nosiest questions.
These include inquiries about what a now 74-year-old woman does to remain so uncannily young looking. Enviably trim in navy blue culottes and matching Chanel-style jacket, she gives hope to septuagenarians everywhere.
“I cycle, I swim, I try to eat well most of the time and, of course, there are so many ‘little fixes’ that you can have these days – a little bit of laser, for example, a non-surgical facelift, without having to go the full Sharon Osbourne.
“Don’t get me wrong, she looks phenomenal, but I’d be too frightened to go that radical. So I’m basically living with my face but giving it a little bit of light fixing from time to time.”
Time allowing, she’s planning a “mini fix” before embarking on the nationwide tour of the show that we are here to talk about: Arlene! The Glitz. The Glamour. The Gossip. It takes the form of a conversation between Phillips and her friend, fellow dancer Jackie Storey, discussing all aspects of her life and work, including her strong working class Jewish upbringing in Prestwich, Lancashire.
One of three children, Phillips’s father was a barber, her mother – who died from leukaemia when she was just 15 – a dinner lady. “We were definitely not wealthy and there was a lot of looking inside your purse for money that just wasn’t there. I don’t know how my parents ever paid for my dance classes when I was little.
“We even had to line our shoes with newspaper when there were holes in them because we couldn’t afford to get them soled.”
Her journey to the top – the founding of the iconic Seventies dance troupe, Hot Gossip, the stars she has worked with, including Elton John, Freddie Mercury and Whitney Houston, the shows and movies she has choreographed, including The Sound of Music, Starlight Express and the recent Monty Python stage reunion, are all on the show’s agenda. As, of course, is Strictly. She left the show amid cries of “ageism” and “sexism” when she was traded in for a younger and, frankly, far less qualified Alesha Dixon in 2009.
“Yes, I’m going to talk about being on Strictly… and being off Strictly, and how I felt about both. I’ve promised it’s going to be a surprise, so I won’t say too much now,” she teases.
“But I am going to talk about the meeting that I finally had with the BBC and what happened in that room when I did.” And from the expression on her face, you gather there must have been blood on the carpet at Broadcasting House… and it definitely wasn’t hers.
Is the show her way of finally putting her feelings about the incident to bed? “Perhaps,” she says. “But, if I’m honest, it’s not something I’ll ever really make peace with. I accept it because I have to.” Subject closed.
Still, it’s no wonder that she’s currently in demand for her comments on two other BBC stories – the appointment of Shirley Ballas to replace Len Goodman as Strictly’s new head judge and the thorny issue of the corporation’s gender pay gap.
Could she offer some friendly advice to Ballas – another “older woman” – on surviving the Strictly jungle? “I’d never presume to do that,” she says. “She’s a professional who’ll be fabulous, I’m sure, without any help from me. But, by the way, I don’t consider her to be an older woman. She’s 56, which seems young to me. How old was Len Goodman?” (Answer, 73.)
“So, no, I certainly wouldn’t say the BBC is hiring an older woman, as such. They’re just hiring another female judge.”
Head judge or not, whether Ballas will have pay parity with her male colleagues is a moot point. And while Phillips could happily “kick off ”, she says, on the subject of equal pay at the BBC, she’s keeping her powder dry on that subject, too.
“My problem is that we haven’t really had full transparency about exactly who does what and what they are paid for doing it. We should have the exact figures – how many shows, how many weeks, how many hours has a person put in to deserve their pay cheque?
“And how does that compare with someone else who has done exactly the same? And if it does turn out that women are paid less, just because they are women, then that is just plain wrong. Women should have parity with men. End of story.”
Aside from anything else, Phillips is the mother of two much-adored, grown up daughters raised to believe in equality. “And, no matter what I have achieved in my career, my daughters are the best thing I have ever created. No competition at all, really.”
Her first, Alana – whose father Phillips has never named – is now 37 and a make-up artist; her second, Abi, was conceived when Phillips was 47 and mistook pregnancy symptoms for an early menopause. “I’ve always been a late developer,” she laughs.
It may be why it suits her to be in a relationship with a man who is 11 years her junior. She has been with Abi’s father, Angus Ion, a set designer, for the last 30 years – ever since they met working together on a video with Freddie Mercury and Queen.
“Funny enough,” she says, ”apart from when I was at school, I’ve always gone out with younger men
– I was even married briefly to one prior to Angus.
“Now, the older we get, the less the age gap seems to matter and our relationship just works. We have our own lives – he loves gardening, birds, playing the guitar; I’m always at the theatre, at a musical or play. But we also love spending time together and, when we do, it feels fresh and joyous. I couldn’t have wished for a better life companion.”
He was with her when she picked up her CBE (to add to the OBE) for services to dance back in 2013. The Queen herself did the honours on that occasion. “You should have seen her,” Phillips says. “She looked exquisite, with skin so soft it could have been a powder puff.”
Her one sorrow was that her parents hadn’t lived long enough to see it. “I can’t imagine what they’d have thought about it. They wouldn’t have been able to believe how far this funny, odd little girl who was always out there searching for something, had come.”
‘Funny enough, apart from when I was at school, I’ve always gone out with younger men’