Playing in that World Cup semi-final was worth the pain
British & Irish Lions, Wales and Scarlets centre Jonathan Davies tells NEALE HARVEY why horse racing and his insatiable desire for honours at club and international level are driving him to make the most of his remaining years in professional rugby.
You co-own a successful racehorse, Potters Corner. Where did your interest in racing come from?
I’d always watched the races with my grandfather and uncle, who were very keen, and when me and (former Scarlets centre) Gareth Maule played together at 15 or 16 we always said we’d like to get a racehorse one day. We became friends with Christian Williams, the trainer who at the time was a professional jockey, and eventually we bought Potters Corner together. He’s been an absolute diamond really and we’ve had some cracking days with him, including winning the Welsh Grand National at Chepstow in December 2019.
Hoping to have a crack at the Grand National at Aintree?
Yes. He might run at Cheltenham beforehand but Christian will make those decisions.
Did that Welsh Grand National win in 2019 help take your mind off the World Cup disappointment with Wales and the serious knee injury you suffered in Japan?
It certainly made me forget about my injury for a few minutes and, thankfully, I had my knee brace on because as I was celebrating I had about five people jumping all over me which didn’t please my physio too much. It was nice, though, because when Potgood ters Corner runs, I’m usually playing or training. Another big day was when he won the Midlands National at Uttoxeter in March 2019 and that was the day Wales were playing Ireland for the Grand Slam. I was on the field when he ran so it was even better at the end when I found out we’d both won, but then to actually be there in person to see him win the Welsh National was amazing.
When you look back at that 2019 World Cup and the big surgery that followed, do you regret playing against South Africa knowing your knee was dodgy?
I took full account of my situation. I knew there was a risk of making the knee worse but for me it was a case of weighing-up where I was as a 31-yearold who’d experienced some amazing things over the years and the fact I might not get another chance to play in a World Cup semi-final. To play that game carried a risk of not playing again and if I’d been 23 with hopefully a good career ahead of me, it might have been different. Playing was something I wanted to do and if someone had said to me afterwards, ‘That’s it, your knee’s done’, I’d have been satisfied that I’d had a good run.
Not for the first time, you went through a lengthy rehab. What sort of patient are you?
The more you get injured, the more you get used to it unfortunately. I remember doing my ACL for the first time when I was 18 and the day after the op, playing rugby seemed a million miles away. It got me down massively. But when you get injured again you understand much better how to go about it, setting little goals along the way, and I think I’m a pretty good patient. I do what I’m told and I’m lucky to have a mother-in-law who had a little rehab clinic set up for me and my brother and, more recently, my wife has taken over the mantle and ensured that all I have to worry about is recovery. Sometimes you forget that even though you might not be playing, you’re still being paid to get yourself fit and that should be your main focus. With my knee after the World Cup, I was extremely diligent in changing my diet and ensuring a spent five hours a day on the machine we had and icing it in order to ensure I restored the movement in my knee. The first six weeks of your recovery set the foundation and, while the surgeons are brilliant, a lot of it is then down to the work you do. I don’t think it’s through luck that I’ve been fortunate enough to get back playing again.
You came back for Scarlets in September before returning to the Wales team in October, how pleasing was it to be involved again?
Very satisfying. The make up of the whole season changed with Covid-19 and while my rehab was not exactly as we planned, I was able to keep in touch with the physios and came back pretty well. When we came back into training, I was probably a month behind but it was good to get back on the field. It takes a while to feel you’re fully over your injury and I’m still not where I want to be form-wise, but you’ve just got to make sure you keep working and putting in the time to get that confidence back and put yourself in good form for what’s ahead.
How’s Glenn Delaney, the new Scarlets head coach, been for you?
Glenn’s been awesome. I missed out on his first year at the club through the World Cup and being injured, but since he took over as head coach he’s been fantastic. The environment that’s been created at the Scarlets is one you feel very privileged to be around and Glenn is the main driver of that. He emphasises how lucky we are to do what we do and to not take it for granted, which is important because it could all end sooner than you’d like. It’s about making sure that when we come in we enjoy ourselves, but we’re there to work as well and I’ve loved Glenn’s attitude. He’s put us on a trajectory as a club which, hopefully, will lead to some success.
Your assessment of Scarlets’ campaign so far?
We haven’t hit our best consistently, we’ve only shown glimpses of it, but it’s about having patience, backing our systems and finding our feet all together. Every team had so long apart during lockdown and then with international call-ups over eight weeks, finding cohesion takes a while.
Which of the younger Scarlets lads have impressed you?
We’ve seen that Tommy Rogers, a back-three player, has huge potential and Josh Macleod is developing into a senior player now, although he’s still relatively young. Josh is a leader and another with a very bright future is Sam Costelow. He turned 20 last week, which is quite scary for me, but as a region we’ve always been good at developing young talent and giving opportunities. Standards in training are excellent right now and that’s because there’s experience along with youthful talent that’s driving competition within the squad. Everyone is desperate to improve. Scarlets had the rug pulled out from under them when it was announced that only the pool winners would contest this year’s PRO14 final. Your opinion?
It was pretty difficult to take because as players we just found out along with the public. It was disappointing because you plan for a whole 21-game season plus play-offs, so for that to change two-thirds of the season in was frustrating because we felt that after Christmas we could put a run together that was extremely competitive, but we’re now quite a long way behind Munster. With no play-offs to aim for it is frustrating but the new Rainbow Cup competition that’s been announced is a clean slate for us to go in and try to win it. On paper it looks good so hopefully it can go ahead and be a top competition. We’ve still got Europe to play for as well so with the times we’re in at the moment, you just have to adapt to the situation that’s in front of you.
What do you make of moving to a PRO16 next season and the introduction of the top four South African sides?
I haven’t been involved in any of those South African trips with the Scarlets before because they’re nor
mally during international periods, but boys who have been said they’re amazing experiences. As a club we never get a chance to go away on tour so there’s maybe a chance to go away for a couple of weeks now and experience those new stadiums and crowds. The fun side of being a rugby player is to enjoy each other’s company and experience new cultures as well, so I think the new PRO16 is good. It’s exciting for the league, which is always trying to improve itself and develop a new edge. Plus, some winter sun would be lovely!
Talking of South Africa, this summer’s British & Irish Lions tour is up in the air at the moment. What are your thoughts?
People talk about tours that are going on in six, 12 or 18 months but rugby’s changing by the hour these days. Last Monday, we were preparing to play Toulon this weekend and running through the moves, but by the evening we were told it wasn’t happening. Things are ever-changing but a Lions tour, whatever it looks like, is something that any player wants to be involved in. I’m sure that in the coming months every player will be wanting to put their hands up.
As a two-time Lions tourist, I can’t imagine you’d be too enamoured by the prospect of playing in empty stadia in South Africa?
It’s difficult to imagine because the support I’ve witnessed on the last two tours of Australia and New Zealand has been unbelievable. One of the things you always love about those games is when you’re walking around the field and seeing all the flags from all over the British Isles and what rugby clubs are being represented, whether that’s a Welsh club like Whitland, an English side like Lydney or any of the Scottish or Irish ones. Fans make those tours, so whatever is arranged I just hope they can be there. You feel for those people because supporters save for a number of years for those tours and you hope they have a chance to support the Lions, but that’s out of my control.
If it comes to it, would a Lions tour within the British Isles appeal to you?
If that’s the way they go it would obviously be a first, but it would still be something as players you’d want to be involved in and it might actually give more people an opportunity to experience a Lions tour than would normally be the case when they go away because not everyone can afford it. You’ve got to look at the positives and if games are played in the British
Isles that might allow youngsters in Wales, England or wherever to go to a Lions match and be inspired to become a Lion. Every cloud has a silver lining and while it would be sad not to be able to tour in the traditional sense because that’s part of the experience, the flipside is that it might allow more people to see a match live.
Back to Wales, results in the autumn weren’t great but what did you make of the series?
Opportunities have been given to a lot of youngsters to perform at the highest level of Test rugby. It was probably a bit frustrating for the squad in the autumn because we weren’t hitting our potential but, like the Scarlets, it’s about having the patience to understand how the coaching staff want us to attack and defend and that autumn period will put us in good stead for whoever is now going to be playing in the Six Nations. We definitely weren’t happy with the results but it’s laid the foundations for the team to really kick-on and become the attacking threat we want to be whilst getting back to our best in defence. It’s a process Wayne Pivac and the other coaches needed to go through to find out about the youngsters and it’s an exciting time, I think.
You’ve worked with Wayne for many years. How does his philosophy differ from Warren Gatland?
They’re actually similar characters who know what they want. Wayne’s great at making sure everyone’s on the same page and he allows Stephen Jones to implement the attacking patterns he wants while overseeing everything. He likes his teams to play with ball in hand, which every player enjoys, and Stephen’s philosophy, from playing with him and being coached by him, is to play with tempo and intensity. When we had that run at Scarlets to win the PRO12 in 2017 it was some of the best rugby I’ve been involved in, but it took us time to hit those levels and I’m confident we can do the same with Wales.
Including his nine Lions caps, Alun Wyn Jones, left, broke through the 150-Test barrier during the autumn. What can you say about him?
It was actually quite funny in the autumn because every week it seemed he was breaking a record of some sort and we were constantly shouting, ‘Three cheers for Alun’, which you knew he probably hated! But it’s testament to him as a professional that he’s played so many games – and not just at international level either because he’s played around 250 games for the Ospreys as well.
“A Lions tour, whatever it looks like, is something every player wants to be involved in”
On a far more serious note, what did you make of Alix Popham’s admission that he’s struggling with early onset dementia?
First and foremost, it’s extremely sad to hear. I played with ‘Pops’ and wish him all the best – hopefully, his story will bring more awareness – but in the time I’ve been involved in rugby, the procedures and medical care we have has increased many fold. With the concussion protocols and injury management, a lot of time and effort goes into them and they’re far, far better than they were when I started playing. We know we get the best care and hope that the HIA protocols now will take away the risk of more cases like Pops. It’s very sad, but as a player you understand the risks.
You turn 33 in April, do you have another World Cup left in you?
The ambition and desire is always there. I remember talking to one of the boys in the autumn about what that first game will be like when crowds are allowed back fully and Cardiff is going to be absolutely rocking. That’s something I’d love to be a part of. We’ll have to wait and see about the next World Cup but, in the meantime, I’m just enjoying being back on the field. All I can say is that my body feels good and there’s still a few miles on the clock left yet!