‘I’ve spent so much of my life fretting and worrying about everything’
Cardiff’s best-selling author and world renowned documentary filmmaker Jon Ronson returns to the Welsh capital this month with his Psychopath Night show. He chats with Neil Collins about his extraordinary experiences
DURING the last 20 years, Jon Ronson has made his name for his ‘gonzo’ style of journalism and investigations of controversial fringe politics and science.
In 2011, he released the book The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry, which delved into the topic of psychopathic behaviour via the Hare Psychopathy Checklist and examined its reliability.
The book forms part of his Psychopath Night which is visiting his home city of Cardiff this month...
Q: You’ve spent many years since your youth based in London and New York, but are you looking forward to coming back to Cardiff? I hear you have some fond memories of St David’s Hall.
A: I was walking past St David’s Hall about two weeks ago with my son and we popped in so that I could show him where I was performing.
I remember it being built, which was incredibly exciting at the time. I went to see Dexys Midnight Runners there in the early 80s, and another band who I can’t for the life of me remember the name of!
Q: There was an incident you’ve referred to in your books where you were thrown into Roath Park Lake by bullies in your childhood, and you have described your days at Cardiff High as some of your worst. It appears you didn’t have the happiest of times here.
A: When I was back recently I went to see my friend Dick Johns, who was my best friend at Cardiff High School.
He’s a storyteller and I saw him do a wonderful reading at Chapter Arts Centre, and there were a couple of other people from Cardiff High there like (the writer) Bethan Morgan.
It was really nice to see them all and they were important formative years, but it reminded me that there weren’t many people at Cardiff High who were like us and interested in the stuff we were into.
Dick was able to transcend being badly bullied, but I didn’t. So while I have some really fond memories of Cardiff – going to Chapter, St David’s Hall, the theatre and hanging out with Dick Johns; the truth of it was that it was a rough time for me.
I just didn’t belong there – I knew it and they knew it, and I was treated pretty badly. That’s why I have mixed memories.
Q: Of all the psychopaths you’ve met on your travels, which one freaked you out the most?
A: In The Psychopath Test I met a Haitian death squad leader called Toto Constant and it’s very clear that he’s a very dangerous man completely without remorse or conscience. A proper psychopath. Many people have died at his hands.
It’s not just terrorists and faraway psychopaths though. When I was writing So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed, I could see the malevolent power all of us are capable of on social media when it all goes out of control.
That’s just as frightening in a way as its people behaving terribly in more subtle ways.
Q: You’ve recently written The Elephant in the Room about Donald Trump. If anyone is a psychopath, it would surely be him wouldn’t it?
A: Well, there’s lots of stuff we don’t know about Donald Trump. Yes, it’s a psychopathic characteristic to lash out in anger, and be impulsive and get angry easily but damaged narcissists do that too, and there are a lot of narcissists who aren’t psychopaths.
Even if I was ok with diagnosing people from afar as psychopaths, I don’t think you should do that with Donald Trump.
I think he does definitely have issues, but I don’t think it’s certain that those issues are psychopathic. I just want his term to be over. I think he’s dangerous and I’m looking forward to the next election and him not winning!
Q: Have you received any criticism for your study of psychopathy in portraying a serious matter in an entertaining and darkly funny way?
A: No, I haven’t. I think I’ve always been good at knowing when it’s ok to be funny, and when to stop. I read a review years ago of The Men Who Stare at Goats, which complimented that.
I think I’ve always being quite instinctively good at finding that balance, and as result I don’t seem to have received too many criticisms. I’m pretty good at judging the tone of it, and I think people want to laugh as long as it’s respectful and not punching down easy victims.
Q: A film version of the book is now reportedly on the horizon with Scarlett Johansson set to portray a “version” of you. What do you make of that?
A: Well that’s how I like to think of it, but (the screenwriter) Kristin Gore has said to me “She’s not really a version of you at all!”
I honestly haven’t read the screenplay so I don’t know how it’s evolving. I think it’s really important if you’re the provider of the source material to not interfere too much in the process.
I’ve been on both sides of that. I knew when I was writing the Frank screenplay (biopic about Frank Sidebottom) that I just needed the space and freedom to just write it however I wanted, so I haven’t interfered with how The Psychopath Test movie is going.
They’re really smart people involved – Kristin Gore, Jay Roach, Brian Grazer the producer, so I’ll just let them get on with it and if it happens then great.
Q: Do you find yourself still pinching yourself to have huge stars like Scarlett, Ewan McGregor and George Clooney acting in roles from your books? A: Yes, but I’ve spent so much of my life fretting and worrying about everything, that I kind of wish I could sit back and think “Oh my God, so many amazing things have happened to me”, but I’m just not that sort of person! I’m always thinking “That story was good, but oh shit I can’t make this one work!”
I wish I could sit back a bit more, but I just think of that film 10 Rillington Place when (Richard Attenborough’s character) Christie gets arrested and says “I’ve lived a very varied life.” I wish could sit back and think “I’ve lived a very varied life.” Instead I just fret all the time. I don’t pinch myself that much – not because I’m arrogant, but because I’m neurotic.
The thing I’m incredibly proud of is when something has been good. I think that Okja, the movie I co-wrote is really good and I think that most of my books are really good as is The Butterfly Effect. I can take satisfaction from doing work well, but the satisfaction never lasts as I’m then thinking “Well, I did that well but I’ll never doing anything well again!”
Q: In a nutshell, what makes Psychopath Night unmissable?
A: It’s the moment in the show when the audience gasps. I’ve got two guests who I bring onstage and I get them to tell their stories, and the moment when the audience gasps so loudly is what makes the show unmissable!
■ Jon Ronson’s Psychopath Night is at St David’s Hall, Cardiff on Thursday, November 16. Tickets cost £17.50. Call 029 2087 8444 or visit www.stdavidshallcardiff.co.uk