‘CARWYN LIED IN BULLYING ROW’ – CLAIM
ASENIOR Plaid Cymru AM has accused First Minister Carwyn Jones of lying about bullying allegations on the ministerial floor of the Senedd.
Simon Thomas told journalists at Plaid’s weekly media briefing yesterday that Mr Jones had lied either in 2014 or last week.
Several people have come forward to say that Labour minister Carl Sargeant – who is thought to have taken his own life on November 7 after being removed from the cabinet because of unspecified sexual harassment allegations that he denied – was a victim of bullying three years ago.
Those who claim Mr Sargeant was bullied include former Public Services Minister Leighton Andrews and Carwyn Jones’ ex-media special adviser Steve Jones, both of whom have spoken of an atmosphere of “toxic bullying” on the ministerial fifth floor.
In 2014 Mr Jones responded to an Assembly Question from Tory AM Darren Millar, saying that no allegations had been made about bullying perpetrated “by special and/or specialist advisers at any time in the past three years”.
However, at last week’s First Minister’s Questions, Mr Jones responded to Welsh Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies, saying: “What I can say is that any issues that were brought to my attention at that time were dealt with, and that’s what the answer was given and that answer is correct, back in 2014.”
Speaking to journalists, Mr Thomas, the Plaid Cymru AM for Mid & West Wales, said: “The First Minister lied either in 2014 or last week.
“In 2014, in response to a written question, he said no allegations had been received. Last week he said those issues were dealt with at the time... The two positions are incompatible. You can’t say you dealt with issues in 2014 and then say there were no allegations.
“Clearly – this is detective work, but it’s pretty obvious, isn’t it? – the allegations in 2014 were the ones that Leighton Andrews made.
“Leighton Andrews has gone on record and has publicly stated that he informally reported bullying allegations to the First Minister in 2014, and they were in relation to Carl Sargeant. He denied that at the time and then last week tried to obfuscate his way in a ‘QC-ly’ way out of that position.”
A spokesman for Mr Jones rejected Mr Thomas’ allegation that the First Minister had lied, saying: “He stands by the response he gave to the written question in 2014 and he stands by the answer he gave last week.”
The Assembly’s Business Committee has agreed to allow a debate next Wednesday on a motion from the Welsh Conservatives that a crossparty group of AMs should question Mr Jones about the bullying allegations. He has been under pressure to be more candid about what he knew about any bullying.
Andrew RT Davies, said: “We welcome the Business Committee’s decision to back our motion and now look forward to debating the motion in plenary next week.
“Questions of considerable magnitude remain unanswered by the First Minister and this debate is a first step towards arriving at some degree of accountability.
“We hope the First Minister will take this opportunity to set the record straight over these allegations and properly explain himself to the Assembly.”
In First Minister’s Questions, Mr Jones went further than he has gone before in describing the concerns raised with him three years ago, playing them down and saying that he doesn’t recognise them as having amounted to bullying.
He was asked by Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood to say what issues exactly were raised with him in 2014 and what he had done about them.
He responded: “There were issues of competing priorities, of people feeling that some people were listened to more than others. They are feelings of people feeling that they want to see you as First Minister to explain their position.
“These are all the normal processes of cabinet, and it would be very odd if any cabinet was in place where nobody ever disagreed, it would be very odd if a cabinet was in place where people were in a position where they didn’t feel they wanted to make their views known in a particular way to the First Minister. Yes, there are always tensions in any cabinet, and surely any party leader will recognise that. What’s hugely important is that the tensions don’t get in the way of good governance – and they haven’t got in the way of good governance.”
Asked by Andrew RT Davies whether issues of bullying had been raised specifically with him in 2014, Mr Jones said: “I am aware of comments that have been made to the press.
“All I can say about those comments is that no specific allegation of bullying was ever presented to me in relation to those comments either formally or informally.”
Mr Davies asked the First Minister whether the Labour group would be supporting the Tory motion that he should be subjected to a detailed scrutiny session by AMs.
Mr Jones responded: “There are a number of ways in which this issue can be dealt with. We reserve our position in terms of the vote next week. It will be studied carefully, of course. I do accept that this is an issue that will need further scrutiny.
“I’m not afraid of that scrutiny. I think it’s a question of finding out what is the most effective way for that scrutiny to be exercised.”